Author Topic: My wheel hubs keep turning out. Please help.  (Read 524 times)

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Offline Tim OConnor

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My wheel hubs keep turning out. Please help.
« on: 26 Oct 2022 at 17:36 »
My wheel hubs keep turning out. It was like this when I got the bike and I can't seem to figure out how to stop it. Can anyone help?
1920 2 3/4 W-20

Offline Hutch

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Re: My wheel hubs keep turning out. Please help.
« Reply #1 on: 27 Oct 2022 at 00:11 »
Hi Tim,

Possibly the wheel is in the wrong way around? Attached are excerpts from the 1916 and 1925 versions of The Handbook of the Douglas Motorcycle. The hub dust caps and bearing cups have "LH"  (left hand thread) and "RH" (right hand thread) marked on them.

 (LH and RH on the dust caps is sometimes hard to see due to wear and tear over the years).

The left hand thread cup is the one with the locking ring on it and should be on the left hand side of the forks when seen from the saddle.

(note:- the arrow on the dust cap, if visible, is not the direction of rotation of wheel but indicates the direction to unscrew the cap)

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Ian

Offline Tim OConnor

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Re: My wheel hubs keep turning out. Please help.
« Reply #2 on: 27 Oct 2022 at 03:06 »
I am having a hard time getting my head around this.

Do I swap the caps from one side to the other to see if the problem goes away or the rings?

Please don't say the wheel because if so I am screwed, the rear would have to be relaced.
1920 2 3/4 W-20

Offline cardan

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Re: My wheel hubs keep turning out. Please help.
« Reply #3 on: 27 Oct 2022 at 06:25 »
I guess we're looking at the bearing cup with the right hand thread, which still has its dust cover screwed onto the end of the exposed thread.

Let's leave aside the discussion about which side this should be on (probably the right side of the bike, according to the literature, but in your case it seems to be on the left? - the only way to fix this would be to respoke the back wheel, and that would take an afternoon).

When the bike is running down the road, well-greased and well-adjusted balls won't exert too much torque on the bearing cups, so it should be possible just to tighten the cups appropriately to stop them loosening or tightening, regardless of which way the hub is fitted to the frame. Here' my suggested plan:

1. Go back and read https://www.douglasmotorcycles.net/index.php?topic=9247.0 and understand how the hub goes together.

2. Buy a little bottle of a stong Loctite threadlocker, and a bottle of Loctite primer.

3. Strip your back hub and bearings and clean everything as if you are about to operate. Use an old toothbrush and a solvent to get all the oil/grease off the thread.

4. Examine the balls. If they are at all marked, or more that a couple of tenths of a thou less than their nominal value (0.250"?), buy new ones. There's an ebay seller in the US who does loose high-quality balls - beware of rubbish.

5. The right-hand-thread cup is designed to screw into the hub dead tight, and is not adjustable. It is tightened by a tool with pins that engage into two of the four holes on its outer face. Note that if the dust cover is still in place you can't see the pin holes so remove it if you can. (You have probably already used the dust cover to screw the bearing cup in, in which case it might be jammed on tight, particularly if you used a screwdriver and a hammer to tighten it.)

6. Read the instructions on the loctite. Prepare the inner and outer threads with the primer, apply the loctite, screw in the bearing cup until it bottoms, and tighten it dead tight with the pin tool, or (as most people do!) with a pin punch and a hammer. This should never, ever move again. There should be a few threads of the outer sticking out of the hub - the dust rover can be screwed on later and just nipped up.

7. Grease the balls and insert them into the bearing cup that is now fixed in the hub. Use your imagination and choice of tools. (You could have the balls already greased into the cup before you install it into the hub, but be careful not to grease anywhere near the threads you are about to loctite.)

8. I have mixed feelings about using loctite on the other side. It has a locking ring, so I wouldn't normally... Fit the axle, remaining balls, and left-hand-thread cup. Screw it in until there is almost no play and the wheel spins smoothly. Fit and tighten the lockring. Things ALWAYS move at this step, so it might take a few tries to get the adjustment correct. There must be a very small amount of play (or "shake") in the wheel measured as the rim. Say 1/2 mm (0.020") or so. Just enough so you know that the balls are not binding as the wheel spins.

9. Make sure the lockring is tight - I hate to say it but a pin punch and a small hammer is probably OK as it has probably been used before.

Good luck.

Leon

Offline eddie

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Re: My wheel hubs keep turning out. Please help.
« Reply #4 on: 27 Oct 2022 at 08:03 »
Ian,
      Surely, the bearing cup with the LH thread should be on the RH side of the wheel (as fitted - belt side) - so that the wheel rotation tends to tighten it! Also, the LH threaded bearing cup should be FULLY tightened, and all adjustments be carried out on the other side of the hub.

   Regards,
                 Eddie.

Offline Hutch

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Re: My wheel hubs keep turning out. Please help.
« Reply #5 on: 27 Oct 2022 at 11:03 »
Ian,
      Surely, the bearing cup with the LH thread should be on the RH side of the wheel (as fitted - belt side) - so that the wheel rotation tends to tighten it! Also, the LH threaded bearing cup should be FULLY tightened, and all adjustments be carried out on the other side of the hub.

   Regards,
                 Eddie.

Hi Eddie,

I had a look at the 2 3/4hp hubs I have and the right hand thread (fixed) cup is the one that screws in all the way into the hub (as Leon  says above) and the locking ring has a left hand thread and goes on the left hand threaded adjustable cup. This is the same as the diagram Leon shows above which is from the Douglas literature.

I seem to remember that your comment about  the direction of rotation of the wheel tightening or loosening the cups may have been discussed in this forum before? I will see if I can find the post.

My thought is (...and of course now I have over thought it and self doubt has crept in! :-) ...) - Due to the rolling action of the ball bearings, do they reverse the direction of the frictional forces between the axle and ball compared to the direction of the frictional force between the ball and the cup?


Regards,

Hutch




Offline Tim OConnor

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Re: My wheel hubs keep turning out. Please help.
« Reply #6 on: 27 Oct 2022 at 13:18 »
I don't have dust covers, is that an issue?
1920 2 3/4 W-20

Offline cardan

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Re: My wheel hubs keep turning out. Please help.
« Reply #7 on: 27 Oct 2022 at 22:54 »
No.

Offline Tim OConnor

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Re: My wheel hubs keep turning out. Please help.
« Reply #8 on: 30 Oct 2022 at 22:06 »
Your procedure is working so far. 3 hours of riding and they are staying in place.

Since it will be more of an effort to open the hubs for greasing I guess I will be using the ports in the center of the hubs.

What grease do you recommend?
1920 2 3/4 W-20

Offline EW-Ron

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Re: My wheel hubs keep turning out. Please help.
« Reply #9 on: 31 Oct 2022 at 00:00 »
What grease do you recommend?

Grease that travels well ?
Those 'ports' in the hub are a LONG way from where the grease is needed.
IF the hub was packed solid, then new grease MAY get into the races where it is needed.

May have worked well from the era when a drop of oil was applied, but utterly useless when grease came into the equation.
Like wheel bearings in cars, dismantling and re-greasing is the only sure-fire procedure ?
Wheel bearing grease works well in this situation !