Author Topic: Swingarm  (Read 1425 times)

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Offline anfänger

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Swingarm
« on: 10 Jan 2022 at 19:31 »
Can't disassemble the front swingarm, One side was not a problem but I can't move anything further, How can I disassemble the parts?

Offline graeme

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Re: Swingarm
« Reply #1 on: 12 Jan 2022 at 05:49 »
I think the spindles may be threaded into that side? I'm sure there are plenty of TS owners on this forum who could tell you

Offline Tazmantic

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Re: Swingarm
« Reply #2 on: 12 Jan 2022 at 12:53 »
Yes I think they are, I’m sure they were on my Aero

Offline anfänger

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Re: Swingarm
« Reply #3 on: 22 Jan 2022 at 13:25 »
        please give info about the threads of the spindles

Offline Hutch

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Re: Swingarm
« Reply #4 on: 22 Jan 2022 at 23:01 »
Hi anfänger,

Welcome to the forum.

Yes as stated by Graeme and Tazmantic the forks and shackles are threaded on one side and the spindles screw into them. On the TS / CW there is a replaceable bush on the other side.

Note that there is usually an internal square drive in the end of the axle (easy to miss as covered by the grease fitting and obscured by grease). This can be used to unscrew the spindle and also for helping to adjust the side play on reassembly. You may have to make a simple tool to do the job.

(Edit:- Note that 3 of the spindles have the square socket, the 4th that takes the ends of the fork springs is different and has a small square end on the end of spindle for a spanner.).

Hope this helps,

Cheers

Ian
« Last Edit: 26 Jan 2022 at 00:14 by Hutch »

Offline Marcus

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Re: Swingarm
« Reply #5 on: 23 Jan 2022 at 02:19 »
Hi Hutch,

Thank you for these photos and description, would you mind putting up the diameter of the ends of the links as well and the length between the hole centers and the width of the center of the link between the end diameters, I've been told that the thickness of the material the links are made from is  1/4 inch, is that correct please.

Thanks

Marcus

Offline Hutch

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Re: Swingarm
« Reply #6 on: 25 Jan 2022 at 23:52 »
Marcus,

Some marked up pictures attached. I hope this is enough information for you. The side plates appear to be (edit) 5/32"   9/32" thick on the ones I have.

I had a stuffed shackle with only one side plate remaining and the remains of a snapped off cross tube. The process of getting it apart was a semi destructive one for the side plate (It was already severely corroded). The remnants of the previously snapped off cross tube (See Link 3.jpg) shows that the hole drilled in the side plate is 5/8" and that the side plate appears to have been countersunk and the cross tube end forged or squashed to prevent it coming out of the side plate. There appears to be some kind of knurling to prevent the cross tube from rotating in the side plate. The side plates appear to be made from quite soft steel - similar to mild steel.

I don't have any more shackles to sacrifice to investigate further but would be interested to see what other forum members have found in regards to how the shackles were made by Douglas?

Cheers

Ian
« Last Edit: 26 Jan 2022 at 21:35 by Hutch »

Offline Marcus

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Re: Swingarm
« Reply #7 on: 26 Jan 2022 at 19:14 »
Hi Ian,

Thank you very much for going to the trouble to post these photos, they answer all my queries. In the text of the message you said the thickness is 5/32 however the note on the third drawing says 9/32, I'm not sure what the 5/32 refers to, could you please tell me.

Are you able to measure the OD and ID of the tube that joins the 2 link plates together please.

I have recently purchased what believe is a TS frame from 1923 or 1924, I asked for some help on the forum to identify the date of the frame and the suggestion was based on the fact that it has the saddle block on the top tube. The frame is in Christchurch in NZ but I am in Auckland so I haven't seen it yet to get the frame number but will be picking it up in a few weeks.

Many Thanks
Marcus

Offline Hutch

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Re: Swingarm
« Reply #8 on: 26 Jan 2022 at 21:49 »
Sorry Marcus,  the 5/32" was a typo - I meant 9/32" or just over 1/4". I have edited the text. Thanks for picking that up. I will measure the tubes for you when I get a chance to get back in the shed.

Forks and shackles for the TS / CW are not super rare (as lots of these models were made and quite a few ended up in the antipodes) and you may be able to pick some usable ones at swap meets / ebay / gumtree / facebook / from forum members etc which would be easier than trying to make some. The spindles are often worn and need replacing tho'. As these steering / suspension components are critical for safety, material selection and construction is very important - in particular the spindles.

Cheers

Ian

Offline Marcus

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Re: Swingarm
« Reply #9 on: 26 Jan 2022 at 22:40 »
Thanks Ian,

I suspected it was a typo but wanted to make sure. I would prefer to have original parts if I can find them, however having the details means I can make some and then if original ones turn up I can change them over. I believe there is a guy in England who was making new spindles from stainless steel, however I will try the Douglas club and see if they have them.

Kind Regards

Marcus

Offline Hutch

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Re: Swingarm
« Reply #10 on: 28 Jan 2022 at 22:39 »
Markus,

The outside diameter of the tube is 21/32". The spindle diameter is 15/32". Distance between the inside of the side plates is 3" on the narrow shackle and 3 1/2" on the wide one. Hope that is enough information to identify them :-).

If you haven't already sourced one, the illustrated parts book for the 2 3/4 HP (you will need one up to at least 1925) is invaluable. Reproductions can be bought from the LDMCC.

A quick search on the internet revealed some stainless steel spindles for a 2 3/4hp Douglas being manufactured (by a forum member). Not sure if these are the ones you found but are for the "Veteran" forks of the earlier model 2 3/4 HP (up to 1919) not the later type unfortunately.

Cheers

Ian

Offline Marcus

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Re: Swingarm
« Reply #11 on: 29 Jan 2022 at 04:04 »
Ian,
Thank you very much for those details.

I have a copy of the earlier Parts List up until 1922 but I will see about getting one that covers up until 1925.

Yes, that is the same person I was referring to who was making the spindles.

Cheers

Marcus

Offline anfänger

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Re: Swingarm
« Reply #12 on: 31 Jan 2022 at 08:48 »
Hi forum members, thanks for your messages witch they help a lot. It was hard to remove all Shaft without demage.  Next step is to clean (rework) all threads from all Shafts. For that i will buy nessessary tools but i
am not sure about right size. Is it 25 TPI or any others?

Best regards

Offline Marcus

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Re: Swingarm
« Reply #13 on: 06 Feb 2022 at 01:20 »
Hi Ian,

I have done a CAD drawing one of the link tubes. If you have time would you please see if I have the dimensions correct.

Cheers

Marcus


« Last Edit: 11 Apr 2022 at 08:49 by Marcus »

Offline Hutch

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Re: Swingarm
« Reply #14 on: 06 Feb 2022 at 22:16 »
Hi anfänger,

Do you mean the fine thread on the spindles? It would be 3/8  28 tpi (measured on the spindles I have)

FYI Chris Wright's very useful information on fasteners used on the early Douglii;

https://www.douglasmotorcycles.net/index.php?topic=1102.0

"Fork spindles on later forks. LH side.    (all four spindles)      3/8” x 28 tpi.
Fork spindles RH side and grease lubricators. (three spindles)   9/16” x 20 tpi.
(Fourth has 3/8” x 28 tpi. thread both sides with a 9/16” x 20 tpi. thread in between."

The spindles I have match Chris's information.

-Ian

Offline Hutch

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Re: Swingarm
« Reply #15 on: 06 Feb 2022 at 22:26 »
Hi Marcus,

I checked the cross tube dimensions against your drawing. I have marked up a couple of small changes for you. One shackle is 3" between the side plates and the other is 3 1/2". I'm not sure if you will need to add a little bit extra length to the cross tube - I think it will depend on how you intend to form the ends to retain the cross tube into the side plates - it may take a little experimentation? Also I'm thinking you may need to ream the hole for the spindle in the cross tube to final size after forming the ends of the cross tube (do to distortion etc). Might depend if/how you use a mandrel to do the job??

-Ian

Offline Marcus

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Re: Swingarm
« Reply #16 on: 07 Feb 2022 at 03:46 »
Thank you Ian,

After I put the drawing up I thought that the 1" dimension was wrong so thanks for pointing the error out. I have done CAD drawings of both tubes and also the link plates so that I can get the plates laser cut.

You are correct that until I try to form the ends of the tubes I wont know if the length is sufficient, however I think I will make the tubes an interference fit in the link plates and press them in on my hydraulic press and then use a pair of mandrels to try forming the ends over.

The next thing to draw are the spindles, I don't have any information on those but will see how I go. I presume that the spindles just run inside the steel tubes and there are no bushes and it relies on oil lubrication between the steel tube and steel spindle.

At the end of this process maybe I should start a thread and put the final drawings up for anyone in the future who wants to make any of these parts.

Cheers

Marcus

Offline Marcus

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Re: Swingarm
« Reply #17 on: 11 Apr 2022 at 05:28 »
Hi Ian,

I had the plates laser cut, got 2 sets just in case, and then made up the spindle tubes. I made a reasonably tight interference fit with the tubes in the end of the link plates and once I pressed them in they are certainly very tight, so I don't think I need to do any more to them.

I now need to turn up some spindles and will probably use 4140 steel for those and see about getting them hardened. I don't have any dimensions of the spindles and understand that all 4 are different sizes. Attached is a pdf of the CAD drawing so if anyone has some spindles for  the later model TS, rather than the veteran model, and wouldn't mind marking up my drawing where I've got it wrong and for the 4 different sizes, that will be much appreciated.

I'm very happy to make these CAD drawings available if anyone would find them useful.

Cheers
Marcus

« Last Edit: 11 Apr 2022 at 08:42 by Marcus »

Offline Marcus

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Re: Swingarm
« Reply #18 on: 11 Apr 2022 at 08:44 »
For some reason, I'm sure its my fault, I cant get the photo and drawing to both appear on the one post so here is the drawing for the spindle.



Image added as linked file - Dave, 11Apr2022
« Last Edit: 11 Apr 2022 at 08:53 by Dave »

 

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