Author Topic: S6 paint layout/shape  (Read 1199 times)

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Offline Jonathan

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S6 paint layout/shape
« on: 30 Aug 2021 at 23:49 »
Hi, I have almost completed my COVID lockdown project.  I am about to send the tank to be painted.
Can anyone help with the original layout of the paint job.  Blue panel, white border, and I think, another thin blue line about 1” framing the panel.

Does anyone have an accurate photo.

Also, should there be a blue panel on the top of the tank?

I have the colours from previous posts.

In photo attached, the bike in the foreground has a blue outer border, with tank colour between it and the inner line.
The bike in the background, on the left has this space filled in with the Douglas Blue.

Also, the rear of the panel finishes in a point on one, and with a radius on the other.

Which is correct please.

Any help greatly appreciated.
Regards
Jonathan
« Last Edit: 31 Aug 2021 at 02:03 by Jonathan »
Jonathan H.

Offline richard s1

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Re: S6 paint layout/shape
« Reply #1 on: 01 Sep 2021 at 22:08 »
Hello Jonathan       
                  The bike in the background on the left has the correct blue tank top panel of the correct shape.   It also has the correct side panel, except the Douglas tartan should fill the space between the two white lines.
 Cheers
        Richard

Offline EW-Ron

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Re: S6 paint layout/shape
« Reply #2 on: 01 Sep 2021 at 22:20 »
The LDMCC sez someplace there the tartan was introduced for 1931, when the T6 and the S6 became  the Models D and E ?

This bike seems to agree with your pic at the back left.
Can't help with the pointy vs rounded end ...

Offline DBoycks

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Re: S6 paint layout/shape
« Reply #3 on: 02 Sep 2021 at 03:24 »
If i did it properly there are pictures of my 1930 S6 fuel tank and paint, its in very original condition, maybe helpful to you if yours is a 1930 at least as well.









Images converted to linked file, close up added - Dave, 12Sep2021
« Last Edit: 11 Sep 2021 at 22:49 by Dave »

Offline Jonathan

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Re: S6 paint layout/shape
« Reply #4 on: 07 Sep 2021 at 02:13 »
Thanks for all your replies and comments.

Attached is a photo from the 1930 Sales brochure.
Looks like the bike in the foreground of the earlier picture might be the closest to the sales brochure!  The question is;  Is the space between the outer line and the inner blue White or Background (chrome or the tank silver colour).
Can't see white lines, but feel it should have them.



[Rotate image to correct aspect ratio display.  07Sep21 -Doug, Admin]
« Last Edit: 07 Sep 2021 at 13:21 by Doug »
Jonathan H.

Offline Doug

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Re: S6 paint layout/shape
« Reply #5 on: 07 Sep 2021 at 13:31 »
There are not a lot of factory drawings of the tank transfers, but there is one for the E/F30 (1930 600cc), part #11383 and11384. It states - working inward to the panel field - a 3/32 inch wide black line, a 1/2 inch gap, a 3/32 gold line, and a abutting 1/8 inch blue line.

No mention of a wide white line so often seen in restorations, but then the styling could have been rapidly evolving and of course a lot of drawings did not survive.

-Doug

Offline Jonathan

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Re: S6 paint layout/shape
« Reply #6 on: 09 Sep 2021 at 02:19 »
Thanks for your comments Doug. Interesting that you call it E30 and F30 when those letters were for prior to 1930. E29, F29, and then resumed in 1931 (Taken from the chart you produced, and from the 1928, 1930 and 1932 sales literature.  See photo attached.  The paint layout is different for the S6 and T6 of 1930.  The inner line you mention would be over the blue panel so wouldn't be seen, though in the E/29 photo, it looks as if it is darker around the edge of the blue panel. (except it is a Black and White print)




Image rotated and converted to a linked file - Dave, 10Sep2021
[update image path. -Doug 03N0v21]
« Last Edit: 04 Nov 2021 at 03:12 by Doug »
Jonathan H.

Offline Daren W Australia

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Re: S6 paint layout/shape
« Reply #7 on: 09 Sep 2021 at 09:49 »
Hi a better copy of E29 Ta Daren
too many dougli not enough time!

Offline EW-Ron

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Re: S6 paint layout/shape
« Reply #8 on: 09 Sep 2021 at 20:53 »
Are there (other) similar scans of the S6  ?
« Last Edit: 10 Sep 2021 at 03:51 by EW-Ron »

Offline Doug

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Re: S6 paint layout/shape
« Reply #9 on: 09 Sep 2021 at 22:23 »
Quote
Interesting that you call it E30 and F30...

That is what it is called on the factory drawing. I call it the T6/S5/S6 series. Perhaps behind the scene Douglas continued calling them the E & F models, though this would get infringed upon when the F was annexed for the F/G31 ohv models (previous incarnation as the G/H28 & G/H29 models; or an model OC by another name). When the letters returned to the catalog in 1931 everything shifted, with C31 being the 500cc (S5), D&E being the sport and touring 600cc (S6, T6), and H joining the lineup - skipping over F/G of course - in 1932 as the H32 750cc sv. A ripe environment for confusion.

I have a factory publicity photo broadside for the S6, but it is a 1931-32 model and so has the tartan panels.

-Doug


Offline cardan

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Re: S6 paint layout/shape
« Reply #10 on: 09 Sep 2021 at 23:26 »
There are not a lot of factory drawings of the tank transfers, but there is one for the E/F30 (1930 600cc), part #11383 and11384. It states - working inward to the panel field - a 3/32 inch wide black line, a 1/2 inch gap, a 3/32 gold line, and a abutting 1/8 inch blue line.

And the "panel field" on the 1930 S6 was... BLACK?

I spent last night reading the Motor Cycle from 1930.

The new Douglas program for 1930 was announced in the 24 October 1929 issue. The L3 (Lightweight 350) is discussed, but its finished is not mentioned, although by show time in late October the L3 was the only side valve Douglas with a painted tank. The "De Luxe and Overseas" 350 (the H3) had chromium plated tank with "black and gold panels". Both the S6 and the L3 were illustrated, both with Douglas blue tanks panels (if my interpretation of the b&w half-tone photos is correct!). The S6 at this time was shown with square knee pads (dating from the early 1920s), and there is a pinstripe well away from the panel on the chrome. Pretty 1929, actually.

By the time of the show things had changed. Presumably someone at Douglas liked the look of the black panel on the H3, and instead of using it on the H3 it was used on the big bikes: the S5, S6 and T6. The artwork for the Show Edition and Douglas advertising was changed: while the artist clearly started with the same photo for the S6, the airbrushing on the guards was different, and there were some small changes to the rear tail light. On the tank, the knee pads were gone, the tank panel was now dark (black?) and the pinstripe on the chrome was much closer in. The artwork is the same as that posted by Jonathan a few posts up, from the 1930 catalogue.

There is a full page Douglas advert in the Motor Cycle 5 December 1930, showing the four side-valve models in a grid: L3, H3, T6, S6/S5. Although b&w, the 350s clearly have blue panels, and the 600s black.

So my guess at the S6 tank finish is as per Doug's factory drawing, with a black panel: black stripe on the chrome, gap, gold line, blue line, black panel. Lovely.

I think an inky midnight blue/black would look great.

Surely there is an original paint survivor?

Cheers

Leon


Offline cardan

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Re: S6 paint layout/shape
« Reply #11 on: 09 Sep 2021 at 23:44 »
It would be fun to examine GH 6846 close up, particularly to look for gold and blue pinstripes around the panel.

Now I don't understand paint pigments, particularly old paint pigments, but I can think of two different examples when cleaning up old parts which were black, and had always been black, I found what I thought was traces of blue. I think there must have been blue pigments in some blacks?

Re the top panel, it wouldn't surprise me if the first 1930 Douglases didn't have a painted top panel, as in GH 6846. Chrome was new for 1930 (on all bikes, not just Douglas), and a chrome tank would be pretty flash. My guess is that painted top panels might have come in in response to riders being blinded by sun glare of the top of the tank. A high summer phenomenon in the UK, that might not have been obvious in October testing?

Leon

Offline cardan

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Re: S6 paint layout/shape
« Reply #12 on: 10 Sep 2021 at 00:11 »
https://dorsetvmcc.co.uk/monkey-see-monkey-do/

I fancy I can see the ghost of a pinstripe around the outside of the black panel - gold and blue, as per factory spec, would look nice.

Leon

Offline Daren W Australia

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Re: S6 paint layout/shape
« Reply #13 on: 10 Sep 2021 at 02:03 »
Do these help ?
too many dougli not enough time!

Offline EW-Ron

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Re: S6 paint layout/shape
« Reply #14 on: 10 Sep 2021 at 03:54 »
With a lighter panel in the centre, that would seem to have added another scheme !

Its interesting that there seem to be any number of schemes and variations.
Is this because folks redid their tanks now and then, so it was never the same twice.
Or the factory kept twiddling the decals and stripes layouts .... ?
It sure makes defining the original layout(s) a challenge.

Offline cardan

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Re: S6 paint layout/shape
« Reply #15 on: 10 Sep 2021 at 10:23 »
No, I don't think so. The tank layout for the S6 (and S5 and T6) had settled by the Show in November 1929, which is where the next year's models were traditionally announced. "Chromium plated tanks with black and gold panels."

The artwork for the S6 at the show is the same as that used in the 1930 catalogue, and was still being used towards the end of the 1930 season - see the attached advert from the Motor Cycle in June 1930. "Chromium, black and gold tanks."

Other advertising during the year also mention chrome/black/gold.

Did all the production machines have the blue pinstripe between the gold stripe and the black panel, as in Doug's factory drawing? It would be cheaper to leave it out, but if I were painting a 1930 S6 I'd put it in.

Cheers

Leon

[Edit: In the 24 Oct 1929 edition of the Motor Cycle, where the new range was illustrated with a pic of the new S6 with 1929-style blue tank panels, there was a Douglas advertising spread in the advertising section. The advert for the T6/S6/S5, reproduced here https://www.douglasmotorcycles.net/index.php?topic=4919.0 , shows the bikes with black panels, and the text says "chromium black and gold tanks". So on paper at least, the S6 had black panels from (almost) the start.]
« Last Edit: 12 Sep 2021 at 01:08 by cardan »

Offline Jonathan

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Re: S6 paint layout/shape
« Reply #16 on: 10 Sep 2021 at 23:28 »
Thank you all for your research and knowledge.
I have taken the tank to the painter today and will post a before and after photo of the bike when it is back together.
Keep chiming
JH
Jonathan H.

Offline Jonathan

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Re: S6 paint layout/shape
« Reply #17 on: 15 Sep 2021 at 21:58 »
On the photo that Leon Posted, I fancy I can see a White transfer with Gold edging.
That would tie in the Gold line around the panel and look very smart.
Jonathan H.

Offline cardan

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Re: S6 paint layout/shape
« Reply #18 on: 16 Sep 2021 at 03:07 »
It would. The LDMCC site says 1932-on for that transfer, but I wonder if it could have come in earlier?

https://douglasmcc.co.uk/machine-transfers/

I've never understood when the transfer should say "Douglas." and when it should say just "Douglas" (without the full stop).

Cheers

Leon

Offline Jonathan

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Re: S6 paint layout/shape
« Reply #19 on: 03 Nov 2021 at 21:51 »
Getting closer to finished.
Paint layout not exactly what I asked from the painter (shape) but very happy with the quality of the job.

Earlier in the discussion Leon talked about a blue line inside the gold line.  That is incorrect.  It was a mis-reading of the original blueprint.  Because everything on a blueprint is blue, it says “this blue line to be black” “this blue line to be gold” etc.  On reading again, for 1930 it only has two colours, black and gold.
(Photos to follow)
Jonathan






[Images added. -Doug  03Nov21]
« Last Edit: 04 Nov 2021 at 03:21 by Doug »
Jonathan H.

Offline cardan

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Re: S6 paint layout/shape
« Reply #20 on: 03 Nov 2021 at 23:52 »
That makes prefect sense, and explains the single gold line around the panel on original-paint survivors. Good sleuthing! https://www.douglasmotorcycles.net/index.php?topic=8903.msg34998#msg34998

Leon

Offline graeme

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Re: S6 paint layout/shape
« Reply #21 on: 09 Nov 2021 at 09:40 »
Are they not T6 forks Jonathan?

 

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