Author Topic: Lighting rules for 1936 bike  (Read 544 times)

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Offline Tazmantic

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Lighting rules for 1936 bike
« on: 16 Aug 2020 at 21:07 »
Hi all sorry if this is on here I did do a search but just wondered what the rules were lighting wise for a 1936 bike?

Does it need lights? If so does it need high and low beam and also a brake light??

Thanks

Offline EW-Ron

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Re: Lighting rules for 1936 bike
« Reply #1 on: 16 Aug 2020 at 21:52 »
You would be well advised to fit a (decent) brake light for modern traffic, regardless of whether it is required or not.
Some chaps here were killed when they were rear ended (veteran car) with minimal lighting.
It may not happen often, when it does its catastrophic for all concerned.

Wasn't 1936 the changeover year for lights ?
Be interesting to see the position on this.
Isn't there a daytime only registration class ?
Home before sundown, and all that ...

Checking with the DVLA would say for sure !

Offline isettaman

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Re: Lighting rules for 1936 bike
« Reply #2 on: 16 Aug 2020 at 23:04 »
Below are the MOT requirements:-
Having read them, I'm very confused!

Headlamps are not needed on motorcycles that:

-are not fitted with front and rear position lamps
-have had their front and rear position lamps permanently disconnected, painted over or masked
-were first used before 1 January 1931
A motorcycle does not need a main beam headlamp if it:

-was first used before 1 January 1972 and has an engine capacity of less than 50cc

All stop lamps must be inspected. If you do not think the stop lamp is connected, you do not need to test it.

Stop lamps are not needed for motorcycles that:

-do not have front and rear position lamps
-have had stop lamps permanently disconnected, painted over or masked
-cannot exceed 25mph
-was first used before 1 January 1936
-was first used before 1 April 1986 and has an engine capacity of less than 50cc
-has a maximum speed up to 30mph or 50km/h

There you have it??

Offline tck

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Re: Lighting rules for 1936 bike
« Reply #3 on: 16 Aug 2020 at 23:50 »
Then there is the  daylight MOT (not that you need one!)

To qualify for a daytime MOT your bike must “have neither front nor rear position lamps, or have such lamps permanently disconnected, painted over or masked.”  This applies to headlamps, position lamps and indicators. The situation with stop lamps is significantly more complicated. Machines do not need to have a stop lamp fitted if they cannot exceed 25mph, were first used before 1st January 1936 or were first used before 1st April 1986 and do not exceed 50cc. Those first used before 1st April 1986 must have a stop lamp that operates from at least one brake control and those used on or after that date must have a stop lamp operated from both brakes. There is an added if not widespread complication for bikes first used from 1st April 1986 which were approved with a stop lamp activated by one control. There were very few of these and test inspectors are instructed to fail a bike only if they are certain the stop lamp was designed to be operated by both brake controls and isn’t.

Your bike must be fitted with a rear reflector and an “audible warning device”, typically an electrical horn, which must be loud enough to be heard by another road user.

Your bulb horn is OK for 1936 My Kss Velo has nothing its 1935 my Douglas has lights they are gas!!!

Offline eddie

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Re: Lighting rules for 1936 bike
« Reply #4 on: 17 Aug 2020 at 07:03 »
Here in the UK, official documents are usually worded ambiguously in order to trip us up! When we still needed an MOT on our old bikes, the updated regulations became more difficult to enforce regarding older machinery - hence, an MOT is no longer required on older bikes. When we had to have MOT's, I had several light-hearted discussions with my local tester regarding my Dragonfly - he commented on the poor Douglas braking, to which I replied that the Dragonfly was the perfectly designed motorcycle - the engine nearly makes it accelerate and the brakes nearly slow it down again! Also, the horn that only just worked - he said it wouldn't pass the test - to which I replied "it doesn't have to have a horn - it has to have an audible warning of approach!" - if a road-user can't hear that rattly old engine coming, they are not going to hear a horn! (All intended to be taken light-heartedly!).
  Moving on the the subject of this topic - machines built after 1935 must be fitted with a speedometer (which should be accurate to + or - 10%), but I have never had a speedo checked during an MOT to ensure it ACTUALLY works!

   Regards,
                  Eddie.

Offline tck

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Re: Lighting rules for 1936 bike
« Reply #5 on: 17 Aug 2020 at 08:00 »
According to the .Gov website
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/motorcycle-parts-checked-at-an-mot/motorcycle-parts-checked-at-an-mot
speedos are not included in the MOT
when I was young and foolish I had a 7R on the road I knew by heart the revs for 30 and 40 mph in the top 3 gears but never got stopped to test my "means of indicating speed"

Offline Tazmantic

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Re: Lighting rules for 1936 bike
« Reply #6 on: 17 Aug 2020 at 08:17 »
Thanks for all the info guys, makes it all clear as mud  :lol:

So this makes things even more interesting as I've said before I have 2 1936 models the first I bought was complete with lights wiring loom etc although the headlight (H52) has a different reflector and has side light and hi and lo beam, the rear light only has connections for a single filament festoon bulb and there is defiantly no wiring or switch for a stop light so if a stop light was a legal requirement in 1936 I would of expected some part to still remain. so I presume I'm going to have to replace the rear light and fit an aftermarket stop light switch. Does anyone have a pic with the correct rear light and stop switch for a 1936 aero?

The second one I bought was a project so in bits and no wiring loom but the headlight only has side light and main light not hi and lo but the rear light does have the connections for a twin filament bulb.

Also the part about speedos must be fitted after 1935 is interesting as Im sure I read it on the site somewhere they were not fitted as standard in 1936 as were not required.

Thanks

Offline tck

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Re: Lighting rules for 1936 bike
« Reply #7 on: 17 Aug 2020 at 08:35 »
Adding to the confusion

Regulation 35 Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 states that every motor vehicle shall be fitted with a speedometer except:

a vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 m.p.h.,
a vehicle which, at all times, is unlawful to drive at more than 25 m.p.h.,
an agricultural motor vehicle driven at not more than 20 m.p.h.,
a motor cycle not exceeding 100cc first used before 1st April 1984,
an invalid carriage first used before 1st April 1984,
a works truck first used before 1st April 1984,
any vehicle first used before 1st October 1937,
a vehicle fitted with an approved tachograph which is required or not.

Offline Tazmantic

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Re: Lighting rules for 1936 bike
« Reply #8 on: 17 Aug 2020 at 08:52 »
Below are the MOT requirements:-
Having read them, I'm very confused!

Headlamps are not needed on motorcycles that:

-are not fitted with front and rear position lamps
-have had their front and rear position lamps permanently disconnected, painted over or masked
-were first used before 1 January 1931
A motorcycle does not need a main beam headlamp if it:

-was first used before 1 January 1972 and has an engine capacity of less than 50cc

All stop lamps must be inspected. If you do not think the stop lamp is connected, you do not need to test it.

Stop lamps are not needed for motorcycles that:

-do not have front and rear position lamps
-have had stop lamps permanently disconnected, painted over or masked
-cannot exceed 25mph
-was first used before 1 January 1936
-was first used before 1 April 1986 and has an engine capacity of less than 50cc
-has a maximum speed up to 30mph or 50km/h

There you have it??

So reading this several times I'm coming to the conclusion that if you dont have "front and rear position lamps" and I'm presuming these are what id call side lights you don't need a headlight or stop light but if you do have "front and rear position lamps" then on a 1936 bike a headlight and stop light would be needed....unless the stop lamp has been removed  :shock:

Offline tck

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Re: Lighting rules for 1936 bike
« Reply #9 on: 17 Aug 2020 at 10:41 »
font and rear position lamps are just that lamps at the front or lamps at the back (ie that includes headlamps)
the word 'lamps' was much employed pre war with 'bobby dodgers' and no-one ever called a acytelene lamps a  headlight
at least that's what I have assumed my 1930's bikes all have no lighting equipment at all so no arguments and I have never seen a stop light on a pre 65 trials bike between sections
BUT I do have a rear reflectors (now thats another story to research) :roll:

 

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