1910 Douglas

[dicknick]

Hello Hutch,

I'm new both to old Douglas's and this forum.  Last year I bought a 1910 Douglas (Model C), which had been owned by the late John Caddick.  Researching the bike's history (and being a Bristolian) has got me interested in the early Douglas years.   I see from earlier posts (#7 Hutch, and #15 & #16 Doug, all 27/04/2017) mention of a 1909 catalogue/sales brochure, which I guess Doug has.  I would be specially interested to see those parts relating to the Model B.  Would it be possible to post those bits of the brochure on this forum, or otherwise share them?  Apart from the one depiction of a Model B, I've never unearthed any 1909 literature.

Any help much appreciated.

Best wishes

Richard (Hampshire, UK)


[Split off from post "Fairy motorcycles and motor sets, in Australia and beyond", links embedded back to messages in that post, subject line edited. 24Jan19, -Doug, Site Moderator]

[Doug]

Richard,

I have a photocopy of the 1909 catalog. It is a sparse, twelve page booklet. The model B was the 'new' model; shorter and a move away from the triangular frame of the previous models.



Compared to the model A as seen in this post:
https://www.douglasmotorcycles.net/index.php?topic=2087.msg7827#msg7827

Oddly, the catalog does not go into great detail of the new model and its advantages. Both are given about equal billing though the A is certainly in second place. I gather the engine is the same for both, just kitted out differently with the carburetion and exhaust arrangements.

-Doug

[Hutch]

Welcome to the forum Richard!  Some model B information is also shown in the 1910 Douglas Sales booklet (along with the Model C), a reproduction of this booklet can be obtained from the L.D.M.C.C. The Model B information is similar to that shown in the 1909 catalogue, with maybe slightly more elaboration.

cheers

Ian

[dicknick]

Hi Hutch & Doug,

Well, riches indeed!  Many thanks for the info.  It answers several questions in my mind how the Model B related to the Model C.  I have the 1910 (Model C) workshop manual (from the club), but I'll chase up the sales brochure too.  Odd that Douglas promoted last year's model alongside this year's, but perhaps in both 1909 and 1910 they had unsold stock from the previous season to get rid of.  They were proud of their 1909 new carb but it didn't last long; they equally proudly promoted their new (and different) 1910 carb!

Thanks again,

Richard

[Hutch]

Richard,

Sorry if I caused confusion by calling it a "sales" booklet I meant the 1910 Douglas Manual, so it is probably the same one you already have?. I only know of the one 1910 document but the one I have is a copy of an original that was loaned to me, not the version from the club so I can only guess that they are the same. In the early days Douglas combined their sales information on the models for sale, with owner testimonials, results of competitions and technical details etc. Only later on (1914) did they split off a separate parts / workshop manual from the sales booklet - probably because by then the booklet was over 100 pages in length!

Yes I think the reason they listed the last year model alongside the new model is because they had not sold all of the previous years stock, also I guess they could expound on the benefits of their improvements over the previous year.

cheers

Ian

[dicknick]

Ian,

This is the 1910 manual I have (a beautiful facsimile from Dave Lawrence of the LDMCC).  Is it the same as the manual you were referring to, because mine only covers the Model C?  No mention at all of Model B.

Best wishes

Richard




[PDF attachments converted to linked JPG image. 01Dec21 -Doug, Admin]

[Doug]

Richard,

The 1910 catalog/handbook that I have is a photocopy sold by BMS publications. Page 15A & 15B (handwritten page numbers) are the model B. Perhaps a tipped in sheet after publication? Definitely 1910 as it references 1910 pattern handlebars, carrier, and spring forks as available options ofor extra money. else you truly got the 1909 leftovers! It is now 36 guineas, the model C is two guineas more.



-Doug

[dicknick]

Doug,

Fascinating, and much appreciated.  Many thanks.  Needs careful study, but as far as I can see the 1910 model B as described is a mix of the 1909 model B and the 1910 Model C.  For example, it seems to have acquired the 1910 carb.  And the options further muddy things.  It does look like there were whole bikes and components from 1909 which needed to be sold off in 1910, where necessary sweetened with some 1910 components.  Interesting for me as I've thought the "1910" I have may include some "B" bits.

Wonderful that these old documents are still around.

Best wishes

Richard

[Doug]

Douglas always pursued a policy of offering last years leftovers as the cheapest model of the range. A basic 2-speed, clutchless model was kept in the range right to the end of 2-3/4hp era. They were even selling belt drive 2-3/4hp models into 1928 (to Australia) two years after they were dropped from the catalog! This maximizing of old stock continued down to the component level. The inexpensive light weight models of the early thirties continued on with the clincher tyres long after the rest of the range graduated to wire on tyres and well base rims. The T6, 'colonial' version of the 1930 S6, used the old extension spring front fork from the previous 600EW models. A significant portion of the RA frame got recycled for the DT; down to using the same part numbers. The wooden knob on the 2-3/4hp tram handle gear change were used on access panel tinware of the mid-thirties Douglas Bantam model. The rigid rear 'Standard' T35 frames that never made it to production were later used for the Comp trials model. Just a few of the numerous examples.

-Doug

[dicknick]

Doug,

Waste not, want not.  You can understand why Douglas worked that way.   I guess the business was never profitable enough to allow unused stuff to be thrown away, but I wonder whether in the long term it helped the marque's image.  All very interesting.

R

[Daren W Australia]

Hi Spotted on Ebay www.ebay.com.au/itm/GB-Douglas-1910-model-D-motorcycle-in-British-empire-army-service-WW-I-RPPC/202577891973?hash=item2f2a955285:g:L1MAAOSwJtdaBw65:rk:14:pf:0 Daren

[Hutch]

Great photo Daren!. I think that is the earliest Douglas model I have seen used in WW!!

Richard and Doug,

I had a look at the 1910 manual I have and the Model B is shown on pages 16 and 17 (of 40 pages). Information is identical to the BMS version that Doug posted and they are part of the manual and not added in. So it seems Douglas reissued the manual later in 1910 with the Model B information removed after they had sold their stock of Model B's?

Cheers

Ian

[dicknick]

Ian (and Doug and Daren)

Lovely photo!  It's clearly a single-speeder, so I hope it didn't have to take on the Flanders mud!

Ian's seems the most likely interpretation of the 1910 history, and very logical.  Thanks for all your great inputs on this.

Richard