Author Topic: S.L. Bailey  (Read 6186 times)

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Offline Hutch

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #50 on: 09 Nov 2018 at 02:26 »
Yes I agree Leon, The bike in the picture appears to be from a later period than stated in Clew's book, I had not manged to look up a more accurate date so put "circa" on the date :-)  (Lunch times at work are way too short!). I have  also found it difficult to find evidence of Bailey's actual input into the earlier Douglas OHV designs and as a result started looking at Walter Moore's work at Douglas for clues. I have not found much so far but did find the starting point that precipitated his being employed by them - the 3 speed gearbox patent.

Cheers

Ian
« Last Edit: 12 Nov 2018 at 23:49 by Hutch »

Offline cardan

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #51 on: 12 Nov 2018 at 11:26 »

The Grand Prix at Le Mans on 28 August 1920 was written up in the Motor Cycle on 2 September. Bailey was not there. There were three Douglases entered, in the hands of Alexander, Kickham and Doisi. (Was Doisi riding the bike that Bailey would have been riding were he not on the boat on his way to Australia?) Alexander was extremely fast: a nail in his tyre delayed his start by about three minutes, but he was leading after two 10-mile laps. After 16 laps his lead was 20 minutes! Alas he stripped second gear "probably owing to the fact that these machines have no clutch", and when he stalled at one of the hairpins and accepted a push to get going again, he was disqualified.

No clutch eh? Interesting. If you have a look at the photos of the event on Gallica (the National Library of France website), for example Kickham on his bike https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b530516117 , you can see that these machines had a Bailey-designed shock absorber built into the flywheel, but no clutch on either the flywheel or the gearbox. Bailey signed the patent application for the shock absorber on 21 August 1920, the day he sailed for Australia.

Did these bike have a sump under the engine? If not a sump, then what?

Leon

Offline cardan

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #52 on: 12 Nov 2018 at 11:34 »

Here's the drawing from Bailey's transmission shock absorber patent, GB172093, granted in November 1921. From the outside, the flywheel looks to house a clutch, but doesn't.

Leon

Offline cardan

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #53 on: 12 Nov 2018 at 20:26 »
Did these bike have a sump under the engine? If not a sump, then what?

The rider's shoe, behind the gear-change mechanism!

The alloy wick lubricators on the rocker spindles were also a Bailey design. The patent was GB187502 issued in 1922.

Leon

Offline Hutch

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #54 on: 13 Nov 2018 at 03:40 »
Great work Leon!

I have been re-reading The Best Twin and came across a list of patents in Appendix 1 (pg 229 - 238 in ed. 2). There appear to be 49 (?) that Bailey's name are on and a lot are related to the RA model.

As we know through the threads on this forum and NCR, Doug has done an amazing amount of research in this area and noted to me in a PM that Bailey's first patent with Douglas was lodged on 13th May 1918 with W. Douglas, no. GB 126161 and that Bailey even neglected to put Douglas Motor's as an applicant on some of the later ones! Bailey was quite prolific until he left for Australia on 16th Jan 1925 with Catherine, Dinah and Ian, (his occupation simply listed as "Engineer") , His last patent with Douglas appears to have been lodged 24th September 1924 relating to RA pistons.

-Ian

Offline Hutch

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #55 on: 13 Nov 2018 at 23:20 »
Here is a chronological list of patents I found on Espacenet  for Stephen Leslie Bailey (and others). This includes some German, French and US patents so the list is longer than that shown in The Best Twin. Hopefully i have captured them all against date of application correctly. Please let me know if you find any errors and omissions and I will edit the list.

Date of             Title                                                                                  Publication         Publication
Application                                                                                             number                date

13-May-18   Improvements in the Manufacture of Motor-cycle Frames.   GB126161 (A)   8/05/1919
22-May-18   Improvements in or relating to Power-transmission Clutches.   GB127099 (A)   22/05/1919
13-Jul-18           Improvements in or relating to Cooling Devices for the
                        Pistons of Internal-combustion Engines.                           GB127757 (A)   12/06/1919
13-Jul-18           Improvements in or relating to Valve-operating Mechanism
                        for Internal-combustion Engines and the like.                   GB127146 (A)   29/05/1919
13-Jul-18           Improvements in or relating to Sight-feed Lubricators.           GB129785 (A)   14/07/1919
4-Mar-19           Power-transmission clutch                                                   US1371542 (A)   15/03/1921
26-Mar-19           Improvements in and connected with the lubrication of
                        pistons                                                                           GB138478 (A)   12/02/1920
22-May-19   Schmierung fuer Kolbenbolzen                                           DE334127 (C)   10/03/1921
12-May-19   Valve-operating mechanism for internal-combustion engines   US1399941 (A)   13/12/1921
12-May-19   Sight-feed lubricator                                                           US1346942 (A)   20/07/1920
27-Mar-20           Improvements in or relating to lubricating pumps for
                        internal combustion engines                                           GB160364 (A)   24/03/1921
29-Mar-20     Improvements in or relating to lubrication indicators and
                        regulators for internal combustion engines                           GB160365 (A)   24/03/1921
2-Jun-20           Lubrication of pistons                                                           US1437585 (A)   5/12/1922
23-Aug-20           Improvements in or relating to power-transmission clutches   GB170729 (A)   3/11/1921
23-Aug-20           Improvements in or relating to valve controlling and
                        operating mechanism for internal combustion engines           GB173016 (A)   23/12/1921
26-Aug-20           Improvements in or relating to the lubricating of the valve
                        mechanism of internal combustion engines                           GB173270 (A)   28/12/1921
26-Aug-20         Improvements in or relating to cycles and the like           GB173269 (A)   28/12/1921
26-Aug-20      Improvements in or relating to the cylinders of internal
                        combustion engines                                                           GB174968 (A)   26/01/1922
26-Aug-20           Improvements in or relating to internal combustion engines   GB172093 (A)   28/11/1921
17-Jun-21           Improvements in pistons for internal-combustion engines   GB187281 (A)   17/10/1922
20-Jul-21           Improvements in or relating to brakes for cycles and like
                        vehicles                                                                           GB187687 (A)   20/10/1922
11-Nov-21           Improvements in fastening and coupling dynamo-electric
                        machines to internal combustion engines                           GB196010 (A)   11/04/1923
16-Nov-21           Improvements in saddles for use on motor cycles and the
                        like                                                                                   GB192219 (A)   1/02/1923
19-Nov-21           Improved means for clamping or anchoring single or
                        multiple strand cables                                                           GB193923 (A)   8/03/1923
10-Dec-21      Improvements in or relating to the lubrication of the valve
                        mechanism of internal combustion engines                           GB187502 (A)   26/10/1922
24-Jun-22           Improvements in the induction systems of internal
                        combustion engines                                                           GB201715 (A)   9/08/1923
8-Jul-22           Improvements in pillion seats for use on cycles, motor
                        cycles or the like vehicles                                                   GB203126 (A)   6/09/1923
8-Jul-22           Kolben, insbesondere fuer Motoren mit innerer Verbrennung   DE390053 (C)   16/02/1924
18-Sep-22           Perfectionnements apport├ęs aux pistons pour moteurs
                        ├  combustion interne                                                   FR556216 (A)   13/07/1923
19-Sep-22           Saddle                                                                           US1502975 (A)   29/07/1924
19-Oct-22           Improvements in friction transmission clutches                   GB205680 (A)   25/10/1923
7-Dec-22           Improvements in the construction and mounting of valve
                        stem guides                                                                   GB210235 (A)   31/01/1924
16-Mar-23           Improvements in change speed gear operating mechanism   GB213107 (A)   27/03/1924
16-Mar-23           Improvements in shackles preferably for use with spring
                        forks for cycles and the like                                                   GB207744 (A)   6/12/1923
16-Mar-23           Improvements in filler caps for liquid containers and the like   GB209641 (A)   17/01/1924
16-Mar-23     Improvements in motor cycles                                           GB211023 (A)   14/02/1924
17-Mar-23           Improvements in and relating to the steering columns of
                        motor cycles or like vehicles                                           GB216259 (A)   29/05/1924
17-Mar-23           Improvements in shock absorbing devices                           GB216258 (A)   29/05/1924
17-Mar-23           Improvements in shock absorbing mechanism                   GB209643 (A)   17/01/1924
17-Mar-23           Improvements in actuating mechanism for change speed
                        gears                                                                           GB209336 (A)   10/01/1924
17-Mar-23      Improvements in crankcases for flat twin-cylinder internal
                        combustion engines                                                           GB212425 (A)   13/03/1924
17-Mar-23           Improvements in gear boxes for change speed gear
                        mechanism                                                                   GB211024 (A)   14/02/1924
26-Mar-23           Improvements in or relating to brake mechanism                   GB217994 (A)   26/06/1924
27-Mar-23           Improvements in saddles for use on cycles, motor cycles
                        and the like                                                                   GB205025 (A)   11/10/1923
11-May-23   Improvements relating to the pistons of internal combustion
                        engines and the like                                                           GB215957 (A)   22/05/1924
11-May-23   Improvements in knee grips for use on motor-cycles           GB201117 (A)   26/07/1923
22-May-23   Improvements in fuel tanks for use on motor vehicles           GB202931 (A)   30/08/1923
5-Jun-23           Improvements in sidecars for use with motor cycles           GB217754 (A)   26/06/1924
30-Jan-24           Improvements in the construction and mounting of valve
                        stem guides                                                                   GB229838 (A)   5/03/1925
16-Jun-24           Improvements in oil pumps                                                   GB234299 (A)   28/05/1925
24-Sep-24           Improvements in pistons for fluid pressure engines           GB244829 (A)   24/12/1925
13-Oct-24           Improvements in transmission shock absorbers                   GB242413 (A)   12/11/1925
13-Oct-24           Improvements in chain guards for motor cycles                   GB242054 (A)   5/11/1925
25-Oct-24           Improvements in or relating to mechanical starting devices
                        for internal combustion engines                                           GB244559 (A)   24/12/1925
25-Oct-24           Improvements in internal combustion engines                   GB244558 (A)   24/12/1925
25-Oct-24           Improvements in or relating to motor cycle saddles           GB241714 (A)   29/10/1925
25-Oct-24           Improvements in stationary internal combustion engines   GB240662 (A)   8/10/1925

Offline cardan

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #56 on: 14 Nov 2018 at 05:35 »
Hi Ian,

Yes there is a gaggle of SLB patents.

One thing I've found interesting is that there are quite a number of "Sports Model" patents (several of them filed on the day SLB left for Australia in August 1920). The cush drive in the flywheels of the 1920 race bikes, the box rocker shaft oilers (I note an earlier patent than the one above - that didn't mention wicks - dated 21 Aug 1920), clutch, front disc brake, combined rear brake and cush drive, and so on. Based on the patent record, you'd have to go with "Bailey designed the Sports Model" or at least "most of the innovations on the Sports Model were Bailey designs".

Here's one of the "August 21" patents that didn't make it to the production models. It was was for an aluminium cylinder head, made by inserting a pre-made iron skeleton (for the "skull", valve seats, spark plug boss and optionally the rocker stanchions) into the pattern and casting aluminium fins etc. around it. (I think Doug once told us that this is how DT heads are made, albeit not using aluminium?)

Anyway, this appeared in The Motor Cycle 22 July 1920:
"There were two interesting Douglases entered for the Class C ten miles scratch race [at Brooklands] for motor bicycles up to 500 c.c., both of them had overhead inlet [sic] valves. Of these, Bailey's mount had cast iron cylinder heads, while Thorpe's engine had aluminium cylinder heads."

A cunning plan, but I don't know how many Douglas racers went on to use aluminium heads?

Cheers

Leon
« Last Edit: 14 Nov 2018 at 05:43 by cardan »

Offline cardan

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #57 on: 19 Nov 2018 at 20:50 »

Was Les Bailey known as "Bill" around the Douglas factory?

Writing in "Racing Reminiscences" about the 1923 sidecar TT and the rapid build of the famous banking sidecar, Fred Dixon refers to SLB as "Bill Bailey", no doubt a reference to the famous song "Won't you come home Bill Bailey?"

It's not a typo, because the index entry that points to the page is for "Bailey, S.L.", and editor Geoff Davison was a contemporary of Dixon, Bailey et al. so would have been in on the joke.

Cheers

Leon

Offline cardan

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #58 on: 20 Nov 2018 at 20:51 »
A cunning plan, but I don't know how many Douglas racers went on to use aluminium heads?

The 1921 TT Douglases used the Bailey aluminium cylinder head, and an oil sump. Not as elegant as the RA sump, but a sump none-the-less. (Well, technically an oil tank under the motor, rather than a true sump.)

I hadn't realised that the 1921 TT bikes also used a four-speed gearbox, changed with a gate.

Leon

Offline cardan

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #59 on: 22 Nov 2018 at 08:39 »

There were lots of "RA" features that appeared during the development of the Sports models - particularly the racing versions. The "RA" tank fillers (a Bailey design) appeared on the 1921 TT bikes, and at Brooklands in 1922, Eve's Sports model had twin carburettors and an airbox, predating the 1923 RA design.

I had thought that Freddy Dixon was involved in developing twin carburettors and airboxes for Douglas racers, as his Brooklands v-twin Harley Davidson was so equipped, but 1922 was before Dixon's influence at Douglas?

Cheers

Leon

Offline cardan

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #60 on: 25 Nov 2018 at 00:13 »

Les Bailey and the boys at the 1921 TT. The reserve bike on the right, with the racing number A, appears to be a three speeder, with the vertical gear change rod and tram handle on the top bar. Other variations in the mix of centre and rear-axle stands.

Leon

Offline cardan

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #61 on: 25 Nov 2018 at 00:26 »

Emerson's Douglas for the 1921 Senior TT, PB 4337, is not one of the four bikes in the photo above. No four-speed gearbox, no sump. Of course it could have been a practice bike. The photo comes from the Keig Collection.

Leon

Offline cardan

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #62 on: 25 Nov 2018 at 04:12 »
The Motor Cycle, 9 June 1921:
"T.T. Douglas mounts will have a four-speed gear box for the race though much of the practice work has been carried out with the three-speed box. The new change speed lever works in a gate bolted to the timing gear cover..."

So the photo of Emerson above shows PB 4337 in "practice trim" at the 1921 TT, with the 3 speed gear box. One of the Gallica photos ( https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b530680537 see page 1 of this thread) shows Emerson on PB 4337 in Le Mans, France, on 22 July 1921 (just a few weeks after the TT), and in this photo the bike is wearing its four-speed gearbox and gate change. In the close-up you can see the horizontal gate to the rear of the magneto (just "touching" Emerson's sporty socks), and the lever with its ball just under the tank rail.

Perhaps we'd see the sump if the photo was from the other side?

I wonder if the team changed the spec of the bike, or just switched the number plates to the "real" racer? I suspect the latter.

Leon

Offline Doug

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #63 on: 25 Nov 2018 at 13:39 »
By the time Emerson reached LeMans, PB 4337 (if it is the same machine) had also acquired drop handlebars. Let us hope he had changed his socks as well!

-Doug

Offline cardan

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #64 on: 26 Nov 2018 at 10:54 »

But they're very nice socks!

I'm not sure what was going on in 1922. Perhaps the effort of getting Pullin exceed 100mph at Brooklands (March 1922) consumed all of the racing budget because there was no Douglas Motors Ltd entry at the 1922 TT in June; no Douglas team. The small number of Douglases that competed were private entries. Believe it or not, Alfie Alexander rode the same bike that he had ridden in the GP in France in 1920 (see the Gallica photos), complete with rim front brake, visible in the attached photo taken during the Senior TT. I suppose he owned it himself? Alfie was one of the twin carburettor brigade, using twin B&Bs in practice, and apparently twin AMACs in the race. Carburetion and handling were common problems amongst the Douglas brigade, perhaps because of the concentration of effort at Brooklands. According to the Motor CYcle, "Misfiring appeared to be the bane of Pullin's existence; the raw morning air apparently did not suit the constitution of the Douglas machines, and the flaming blow-back through their carburetters was a sight to behold."

Poor old Cyril even got a bad deal from the press: he was announced as third place getter in the Junior race, but the following week they had to apologise and admit that his engine expired on the last lap, while lying third.

Leon


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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #65 on: 26 Nov 2018 at 16:54 »
According to Jeff Clew in "The Best Twin" Freddie Dixon joined Cyril Pullin at Hanham Road in 1925 to assist with the racing models. Pullin was responsible for engine development and Dixion the chassis. Rex Judd was involved with testing. So too late for the 3-1/2hp Sports based models or even the RA. Earlier in the book Clew mentions Dixon becoming more closely associated with the factory in 1924, though not specified in what role or capacity.

As for why no entry in the 1922 TT, I don't know. The previous year had been plagued with temperamental mounts but you would think with a year to sort out the problems they would have had another go. It might be that work was already starting on the successor RA, but again why not run refined versions of last year's models in the interim? Walter Moore did leave Douglas for ABC in 1922 (not sure what month), so they might have lost their key developmental guru for assembling a Works entry. The clash between Bailey and W.H.E. Millman was still a year or two off, so I don't think that was a factor.

-Doug

Offline cardan

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #66 on: 26 Nov 2018 at 21:07 »
It's a big topic! I reckon there could be a book in "Douglas racers in 1922", and I think it would show that Douglas had the fastest motorcycles on the planet, but they were struggling to get them to (a) accelerate and (b) steer.

Pullin (said to be "Engineer, Brooklands" in 1922, rather than a Douglas employee) set amazing records during the year, but in the solo classes where he held flying start records (e.g. on a 350 at just a tick under 95 mph) other makes held the standing start records. During the year, there are references to Douglas racers using (at least) AMAC, B&B, Wex, and Cox Atmos carburettors, as well as various extra air devices. The bikes went well on full throttle, but not across the range. I think they stayed away from the TT because Douglases popping and farting their way around the low speed corners on the Isle of Man would have been an embarrassment, even if they did go like stink on the fast parts of the circuit.

Douglas advertising focussed almost entirely on speed records at Brooklands and elsewhere. Bailey's RA was a brilliant solution to the 1922 "woes"?

Cheers

Leon

Offline cardan

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #67 on: 27 Nov 2018 at 07:01 »

Here's the twin-carb setup as at July 1922. Desperate. The large diameter tube on top of the air box couples to a fitting on the petrol filler cap - see Eve's bike (which does without the handlebar-controlled-variable-main-jets) above.

Leon

Offline cardan

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #68 on: 27 Nov 2018 at 21:03 »
For the record, Bailey's racing career did not end in 1920 (although he wound back, he raced at Brooklands as late as November 1921)...

SLB was still racing (occasionally) during 1922, notably at the "Royal" race meeting at Brooklands in May. There were a number of Douglas racers on the track, with Emerson and Bailey finishing 2nd and 3rd respectively in the 1000cc Solo Handicap. Emerson's bike for the event had only one carburettor, Bailey's likely had two. Was this the point at which it was decided that a TT entry would have been futile?

By the way, HRH the Duke of York was a competitor in one of the three motorcycle events, on his Sports Douglas of course.

Bailey was also out in July 1922 at the East South Wales Open Hill Climb. Clearly he liked to be "hands on" with the race bikes.

Leon

Offline cardan

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #69 on: 28 Nov 2018 at 20:48 »
I mentioned above that Cyril Pullin (1914 Senior TT winner and SLB's brother-in-law) was extremely successful at Brooklands in 1922. Arguably the greatest achievement was being the first rider to be officially timed at over 100 mph on a 500cc  motorcycle.

The famous machine was a Sports Model Douglas, more or less.

Of course Douglas Motors wanted the buying public to think that the bike was "standard", and if we look at the photo of "Cyril Pullin's 100 m.p.h. Douglas" in The Best Twin we'd have to agree.

But the photo published in the Motor Cycle 30 March 1922, a few days after the event, tells a different story - particularly in the carburettor department. Twin carbs and air box is the more likely set-up for the 100 mph bike.

Leon

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #70 on: 29 Nov 2018 at 20:08 »
One of numerous examples in the motorcycle record breaking annals of that which was publicized and that which actually claimed the record were not exactly the same machine!

-Doug

Offline cardan

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #71 on: 29 Nov 2018 at 23:06 »
Yes indeed! If we were to believe the Douglas advertising, Pullin was flying around Brooklands on "standard production models"! See the advert below from December 1921.

Nothing could be further from the truth. By the end of 1921 Pullin had twin carburettors and an airbox on his Douglases. Here's a summary of Pullin and Douglas, sourced from period literature:

Pullin's first outing on a Douglas at Brooklands was at the Ealing and District MCC First Annual Race Meeting in July 1921. A week later he was back at Brooklands for the S.E. Centre  (A.C.U.) Speed Trials. "Practice" out of the way, he joined the big boys at a BMCRC Meeting the following week, when he gave notice by finishing second to Victor Horsman (Norton) in the three-lap scratch race.

By October he was seriously into the Brooklands game, having fitted "an ingeniously balanced air intake to his sports model Douglas".  Bailey and Emerson were also there on their Douglases, with Emerson taking the 500cc Solo Chamionship by some 500 yards from Pullin. Pullin then attached the sidecar to follow O'Donovan home in the 600cc Sidecar Championship.

The balanced air intake was described in more detail in the report of the November BMCRC Brooklands meeting: "A revival of an old idea was to be seen on Pullin's two Douglases [a 500 and a 750?] and Stewart's Trump. It originated in the old Gillet-Lehmann carburetter, and consists of connecting the carburetter air inlet to the float chamber or the tank, or to both, so that a pressure feed is obtained to a certain extent... Pullin's Douglas had a large pressure box fitted round the air inlets of his two carburetters. During the start Pullin got away rather badly..." 

I think it was probably Pullin (working at Brooklands, probably under some agreement with Douglas/Bailey) who developed the twin-carb-and-air-box for Douglas, and in the "Pullin got away rather badly" comment we see the trouble he was having getting proper carburation across the range.

Leon

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #72 on: 30 Nov 2018 at 22:25 »
A couple of comments re the Pullin 100mph Douglas:

No gear change lever is evident. It's likely that there were no gears in the gearbox, just the mainshaft acting as a countershaft. I've not read anything to confirm this for Pullin's DOuglas, but around the same time the chain-drive Brooklands Nortons had this approach.

Note the steel horseshoe that braces the top of the crankcase to the tank rail of the frame - standard fare for the "works" Sports Douglases and seen in close-up in photos earlier in the thread.


In The Best Twin, in my 1st edition at least, Clew says that Pullin was engaged to deliver Sports Models with a 100 mph guarantee. This is repeated in other Douglas books. 80 mph seems much more likely?

I like the comment "Mr Pullin's retaining fee is exceptionally high"!

Leon

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #73 on: 30 Nov 2018 at 22:48 »
Perhaps we'd see the sump if the photo was from the other side?

At the same meeting (GP de la Sarthe, Le Mans, France, July 1921) Freddie Dixon (in his first race on a Douglas?) supplied the perfect view: from underneath! https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b530680821

No sump there, but surprisingly there is a clutch.

Leon

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #74 on: 30 Nov 2018 at 22:49 »

More evidence to support my theory that the post-1921-TT development program resulted in extremely fast but difficult-to-ride twin-carb Douglases.

Only days after the 100 mph record at Brooklands, and reported in the same issue of the Motor Cycle (30 March 1922), Pullin was at the Essex M.C. Hill Climb at the famed Kop Hill.

"C. G. Pullin, fresh from his 100 m.p.h. efforts on Brooklands, was competing, but but his Douglas was firing irregularly, and in consequence he did not come into great prominence."

Less that 2 months before the 1922 TT, time was running out fast. Too late for a proper entry for the TT, so keep winning races and setting records at Brooklands, and get things sorted out for the 1923 TT. Which they did.

Leon

« Last Edit: 01 Dec 2018 at 02:35 by cardan »

Offline cardan

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #75 on: 02 Dec 2018 at 08:05 »
In a thread about Les Bailey, I'm going to include a photo of this 1923 348cc Douglas as, of all the overhead-valve Douglases built between 1912 and 1923, this is possibly the one with least input from SLB.

The photo comes from Joseph Bayley's book The Vintage Years at Brooklands, and shows Rex Judd on a bike that was "reputed to have been designed by Cyril Pullin" after winning a 350cc race at Brooklands on 7 April 1923 at 80.2 mph. Judd rode the bike on its debut at Kop Hill on 24 March 1923.

The frame is interesting - somewhat RA-ish, with what looks like twin rails underneath the tank. Pullin's "sports" engine with twin carbs, handle-bar controlled variable main jets, gearbox under the rear cylinder. Very nice.

The RA was only a couple of months away, and it was good enough to win the 1923 Senior and Sidecar TTs with just a pair of fixed-jet AMAC 15TT23 carbs, with none of Pullin's external "balancing" pumbing. (The lids on the aluminium 15TT23 fuel bowls came with a vent fitting, but I've never seen it connected to anything on an RA?)

If the DW was Bailey's version of Pullin's EW https://www.douglasmotorcycles.net/index.php?topic=144 , is this bike Pullin's version of Bailey's RA? He must have known that the RA was under construction down at Bristol?

Pullin's sports-model-racers were still being used as speed machines in 1924.

Leon

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #76 on: 03 Dec 2018 at 20:31 »
Here's Bailey's 1923 RA frame for comparison with the Pullin-designed machine. Quite similar, but the RA engine has a much wider footprint than the Sports engine so the lower frame rails are wider apart on the RA. The major difference with the Pullin frame is the dual rails under the petrol tank. Check the junk pile down the back for unusual Douglas frames!

Douglas produced a comprehensive booklet aimed at RA riders entered for the 1923 TT. The booklet lists TWENTY patents and patent applications that cover the RA design, and all of them are in Bailey's name. About the only part of the RA that was not new was the cylinders and heads, which were more-or-less identical to those on the sports model. Since SLB was involved in this design in 1920, it's fair to describe the RA as completely designed by Bailey.

The only innovation on the RA that is not "completely Bailey" is the twin carburettor and air box, which had been developed by Pullin at Brooklands over the previous 18 months. However the Bailey/AMAC setup was considerably cleaner than the Pullin design, and did away with the complexity of the pressure balancing plumbing that Pullin was clearly wedded to. Of course the production RA did away with the variable main jet favoured by Pullin.

Even the "RA" (Research Association) brakes fitted to the RA were covered by a Bailey patent, and were neater and more efficient than the original design.

Leon
« Last Edit: 03 Dec 2018 at 20:38 by cardan »

Offline cardan

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #77 on: 03 Dec 2018 at 20:35 »
Stephen Leslie Bailey's "RA" Douglas, from the 1924 catalogue.

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #78 on: 04 Dec 2018 at 02:16 »
Excellent research Leon. Here we have where all the work by Bailey and others paid off - Tom Sheard's RA IOM TT 1923 winner.

(picture from IOM museum www.imuseum.im)

-Ian

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #79 on: 04 Dec 2018 at 21:33 »
Ain't it pretty? All of the subsequent Douglas road racers - up to the 1932 TT entries - developed in a fairly linear way from the RA.

Here's my scribble chronology of S. L. Bailey as it stands at the moment:

1906 January 31, SLB nominates for the Sydney 1000 bicycle race

1909 October 28, SLB wins heat of 3-miles motor cycle race in Sydney on a Triumph

1910 February 26, SLB working for Canada Cycle & Motor Co., Ltd., Newcastle, racing (British) Excelsior

1910 March 24, SLB wins 5-miles Championship of NSW on his 5-hp Massey JAP

1910 August 24, SLB attempts records on Massey JAP and LMC motorcycles

1911 Feb 11, SLB racing in Sydney for the Newcastle MCC on Massey JAP

1911 September 2, SLB, "motorist", arrrives in London on the Otway, 3rd class

1912 May 11, SLB racing a 2 3/4 TT Humber in Birmingham

1912 June 1, SLB rides W. Douglas's competition machine at Brooklands in All Comers' One Hour Race: 56 miles, 755 yards

1912 Bailey rides a Douglas in the TT

1912 July 20, SLB racing a 2 3/4 side-valve Douglas at Brooklands (see higher in this thread)

1912 December "last week" (on 5th), SLB testing 2 3/4 OHV Douglas at Brooklands (with Granville Bradshaw parts)

1912 December 16, SLB due to leave for Australia

1912 December 17, SLB record setting at Brooklands on the OHV 350 (so departure delayed).

1912 December 19, leaves for Australia with Weatherilt.

1913 February 12, SLB in Forbes NSW, returning to Sydney to attempt records. Plans to return to England "for the opening of the racing season"

1913 May 13, SLB record breaking on 2 3/4 Douglas in Melbourne: one hour record

1913 June, SLB record breaking in Brisbane

1913 July 25, SLB leaves Sydney on S.S. Sonoma to UK via USA

1913 September 11, SLB back in England, quite badly injured in motorcycle accident (on the road, I think)

1913 October 4, Debut of "new" (narrow pushrod) OHV Douglas at Weston-super-Mare, Alexander riding

1913 October 11, "New" OHV Douglas entered for BMCRC meeting at Brooklands, ridden by Alfie Alexander.

1914 February 28, Track tests of "new" ohv Douglas (1914 TT model), F. G. Ball riding, SLB on crutches and timekeeping.

1914 March 28, SLB racing OHV Douglas at BMCRC meeting at Brooklands - 1914-TT-style Douglas engine, but in single down-tube frame

1914 September 22, SLB sets Class F (350 sidecar) records at Brooklands

1915 December 15, SLB "now holding an important position with Messrs. Douglas Bros." marries Cyril Pullin's sister

1917 May 3, SLB "Douglas", "well-known motorcyclist", attends Cyril Pullin's wedding

1917 September 20, SLB conducts a tour of the Douglas Works for "The Motor Cycle". Hints, but "not at liberty to divulge details"

1918 April 4, SLB and W.W. Douglas return from France, promoting 4hp Douglas for French army

1919 May 8, SLB injures hand in car accident in Bath at Easter

1919 August 29, Weston-super-Mare: F.G. Ball debuts 8-valve aluminium-cylinder Douglas racer - beaten by SLB on 1914-TT-style machine

1920 May 28, Tudor Thompson at Brooklands on 350 Douglas (presumably with "Sports" style motor)

1920 June, Douglas TT machines have "Sports" style motor with belt drive; brakes on rim at front, on belt rim at rear

1920 August 17, SLB beats flying-5-mile record at 66.18 mph: "Sports" type motor, chain drive, with precursor to RA/S1 disc brake at rear

1920 August 21, SLB sails for Australia with "a new 2 3/4 h.p. chain driven model"

1920 October 15, Back in Sydney for "thee-weeks' trip"

1920 October 28, Sports Model announced in The Motor Cycle with SLB-designed disc front brake etc.

1921 January 13, SLB "on his way back from the Antipodes"

1921 July 20, SLB applies for disc brake patent (granted as GB187687, 1922)

1922 March 23, C. G. Pullin exceeds 100 mph on 494cc Douglas

1922 May 19, Possibly SLB's last competitive race at Brooklands

1923 May 30, First public photos of SLB's masterpiece, the RA Douglas

1925 February 27, SLB arrives back in Sydney for "well-earned break"

In Australia 1925-1929:

Douglas Motors Ltd. factory representative for Australasia

Chairman of Directors, Penrith Speedway, Ltd.

Factory representative, Coventry Chains

Factory representative, AMAC carburettors

Vice President, Western Suburbs Motor Cycle Club

Vice President, Douglas Motor Cycle Club

Director, Missendon Road Motor Body Works, Ltd.

Director, Australasian Motor Investment & Finance Co. Ltd.

Director, Maroubra Speedway, Ltd.

Offline Hutch

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #80 on: 04 Dec 2018 at 22:41 »
From the Australia Birth Index;

1888 July 15 Burrowa, NSW, Stephen L Bailey born to George and Elizabeth Bailey



(BTW Burrowa is now known as Boorowa

http://www.aussietowns.com.au/town/boorowa-nsw )


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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #81 on: 04 Dec 2018 at 22:52 »
Leon,

Les's probate notice could sadly be the other bookend to your chronology?

-Ian

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #82 on: 05 Dec 2018 at 00:20 »
It appears that G. Bailey and Son were in Burrowa Street in Young at least as early as 1901. It later became G.Bailey & Sons. Albert Bailey was one of the son's. Is the Leslie referred to in this court case, reported in the Young Chronicle 11 April 1906,  S.L. Bailey? If so then was Les living in Sydney in 1906?

Offline cardan

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #83 on: 05 Dec 2018 at 21:12 »
Wow - that's so interesting! A family connection to "the trade" goes a long way to explaining some things I haven't pursued yet.

An article that appeared in various Australian papers in October 1920, when Bailey was visiting, says in part:

"Les Bailey was only a youth when he left Australia's shores. In his very early dayshe rode a cycle and promoted races in the country. Bob SPears, now the world's champion cyclist, rode his first race at a meeting promoted by Bailey, at Tingha, a mining town, while, earlier than this, 1906 to be exact, he promoted the first road race which Reg McNamara, now one of the best riders in the world, contested."

I got as far as locating Tingha on the map, and pondering how an 18-year-old could promote a cycling event. But an 18-year-old with a father and brother in the trade is a different matter.

Anyway, here's Les in his role as Douglas factory representative in Australasia. If newspaper reports are to be believed, Bailey was responsible for landing the TT Douglas, putting it in the hands of Conoulty, and even tuning it after initial trials were disappointing.

Cheers

Leon

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #84 on: 06 Dec 2018 at 05:25 »
Leon,

Yes i think some of the details of SLB's life prior to him going to the UK are starting to fall into place a little. 1905-1906 appears to be a tumultuous time in the Bailey household. Starting with the fire in 1905,referred to above in Albert's court statement, which appears to have caused considerable damage to the premises and stock of G. Bailey and Son's in Young. reported in the Young Chronicle 28th June 1905.

-Ian

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #85 on: 06 Dec 2018 at 05:36 »
The business "G.Bailey and Son" was then sold to Bennett and Barkell as reported in the Young Chronicle on 9th August 1905 and George decided to sell up everything and move on, indicating he was possibly moving to New Zealand. His property and chattels were auctioned in September 1905. This may have been the reason Les was away from the district by 1906?.

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #86 on: 08 Dec 2018 at 04:05 »
How much of Pullin's "balanced induction system" made it to the RA?

Interesting question. I think the answer is "some, but not all".

I mentioned above that the AMAC 15TT23 carburettors - very special and no doubt made specifically for the new Douglas racers - came with a fitting on the lid of the fuel bowl to allow for an air pipe for this purpose. At the time the carbs were ordered the idea was still in mind.

In the lead up to the 1923 TT, the Motor Cycle observed: "Contrary to common opinion, there is no pressure balancing on the induction system, but the carburetters (there are two per machine) take air from a box fitted upon the timing cover. This box has its orifice facing to the rear, and it also is provided with a baffle in the centre, which shields and separates the two intakes. Passing through the intake box are two cross-shafts or spindles, rotated by Bowden wire and short links".

Yet on the opposite page the line drawing shows a short (air) pipe from the fuel chamber lid disappearing into the air box.

My air box has the holes for these pipes.

So it looks like some of the Pullin system survived into Bailey's RA, balancing the air pressure in the air box to that in the fuel bowls. However I don't think the RA went the whole way and balanced the air-box pressure with the air above the petrol in the tank.

Leon

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #87 on: 08 Dec 2018 at 06:54 »
Leon,

The subsequent 1925 Works and 1926 catalog I.o.M./TT models continued on with the small tubes venting the float bowls to the airbox, as shown in the RA illustration.

-Doug

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #88 on: 08 Dec 2018 at 07:02 »
Hi Doug,

They're pretty weird little things - because the length and shape of the tube depends on where the fitting ends up when the fuel bowl lid is done up tight. I assume they were just copper tubes?

Was there originally a little (rubber?) cover over the tickler? In principal it should be air tight if the balancing thing is to work.

Leon

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #89 on: 08 Dec 2018 at 13:43 »
Leon,
          Are you sure the tubes are there to balance the air pressures - with the large intake to the airbox, there is unlikely to be much depression within the box. I think it is more likely to be a means of venting the tops of the float chambers without increasing the chance of water ingress during a wet race.

  Regards,
                Eddie.

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #90 on: 08 Dec 2018 at 13:47 »
Leon,

Yes, copper tube and brass fittings, nickel plated.



-Doug

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #91 on: 08 Dec 2018 at 14:17 »
Eddie,

There were much simpler ways to create a water-proof vent the float bowls; so I think something more must have been the intent. Period accounts do clearly mention a 'pressure balanced' system. Whether it actually worked or not is an entirely different matter! :)

-Doug

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #92 on: 08 Dec 2018 at 23:37 »

I agree Eddie, it's a bit of a stretch that the pressure in the air box would be much less than one atmosphere. I think Doug's comment is right on the ball: it's a pressure balancing feature but whether it's worthwhile...

The plan is clear. Carburettors of the period were designed to have the fuel level held constant (by the float) just below the jet (or vapourising holes in the case of the 15TT23). In theory, with the engine accelerating the pressure in the air box - and hence the mouth of the carburettor - is less than 1 atm, so the fuel will rise in the jet for TWO reasons: (1) the usual venturi effect and (2) because the air pressure above the fuel in the float bowl is greater than the air pressure in the carburettor. Both effects richen the mixture, but advocates of "pressure balancing" would like to remove effect (2).

I guess one of the problems that Pullin had with his twin-carb bikes in 1921-1922 was too-rich mixture when accelerating, so he developed his over-complicated system of pressure-balancing + handlebar-controlled-variable-main-jet. A couple of years later tuners would be dealing with the problem by raising or lowering the needle (the AMAC of the day didn't have one) or varying the cutaway in the throttle slide.

These were still pioneering days in some ways.

Leon

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #93 on: 08 Dec 2018 at 23:55 »
Hi Doug,

Thanks for the photo of the little "balance tube" on the TT. If you look really hard it can also be seen on Sheard's 1923 TT winner - see below.

For the balancing to work, the top of the fuel bowl has to be sealed (other than the connection inside the air box). The ticklers on the 15TT23 AMAC carbs on the RA have a threaded part that projects up around the outside of the tickler itself, which is almost a wire. I'm 99% certain there were rubber caps that "screwed" on to the fitting, over the top of the tickler, to seal the fuel bowl top, but still allow the tickler to be depressed. Hard to get a photo that shows this, but the two line drawings attacked - of Pullin's Brooklands setup, and the RA - both show a cap over the tickler.

Cheers

Leon

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #94 on: 09 Dec 2018 at 02:45 »
Just looking at SLB's patent GB201715 lodged June 22 1922. The pressure balancing of the carburettors would make a lot more sense if you were going to supercharge the engine.......

Offline cardan

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #95 on: 09 Dec 2018 at 04:13 »
You'd think that GB201715, in which the crankcase acts as a supercharger, was just a bit of imaginative fluff from Bailey's overactive mind.

By then, what is the beast that Judd was riding as Arpajon, France in July 1924??

Leon

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #96 on: 09 Dec 2018 at 09:54 »
And speaking of 1924...

1924 is a "missing year" in the Bailey chronology. If "The Best Twin" were to be believed, S. L. Bailey left Douglas late in 1923, replaced by his friend and brother-in-law Cyril Pullin.

But I don't think this is correct.

There is lots of evidence that SLB continued on at Douglas through all/most of 1924 - likely in the top job - during which time he continued to innovate and patent his ideas. His last batch of Douglas-related patents were filed late in October 1924, and he was back living in Sydney when they were accepted during 1925. A number of these patents covered OB development, so it's fair to acknowledge SLB's contribution to OB design and development.

Bailey had a gala send-off by the Douglas Club in December 1924 hosted by club president John Douglas, at Kingswood. The event was reported in Motor Cycling 17 Dec 1924. SLB was presented with "a magnificent gold watch and an autographed album" as mementos of his time at Douglas Motors. In response he spoke in glowing terms of his time at Douglas and the prospects in Australia "to which  country [he] departs early in January as the representative of Douglas Motors Ltd."

The day before his departure for Australia on 16 January 1925, the Motor Cycle published a full-page article by Bailey, entitled "FIFTEEN YEARS' ENDEAVOUR - A Pioneer Describes his Efforts to Interest British Manufacturers in Overseas Trade". To give an idea of the tone of the article, it begins"Fifteen summers have passed since I first landed on on old Albion's shores" and finishes "You have treated me wonderfully, but Australia is calling, the stars are blinking in a blue sky under the Southern Cross, and I am going home. Au revoir!" with a facsimile signature S. L. Bailey.

Anyway, I make the point that it seems that SLB was running Douglas through 1924. During 1924, Cyril Pullin and Rex Judd were developing racers and attempting records at Brooklands, Arpajon and elsewhere, I suppose on the Douglas payroll? One marker of Pullin taking up his leading role as designer at Kingswood early in 1925 was the beginning, in February 1925, of a prodigious program of patents filed by Pullin and Douglas Motors Ltd, in much the same way as Bailey did when he was in the role.

Leon

Offline cardan

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #97 on: 10 Dec 2018 at 20:48 »

A couple of posts back there is a newspaper photo of Les Bailey and Billy Conoulty with a TT Douglas in Australia in July 1926. The caption credits Bailey as the "designer". Sort of true, because the IOM TT Douglas that first appeared at the TT in 1925 was a development of the Bailey's RA, but let's credit Cyril Pullin for the improvements.

Here's Rex Judd at Brooklands in March 1925, just a couple of months after the handover from Bailey to Pullin. The bike represents the transition from Bailey's RA (confusingly often called the IOM TT model in the day) to Pullin's IOM TT. Bailey is still there with the RA-style  frame and single-spring fork, but incorporating the OB gearbox with its frame mounting lug and frame-mounted gear change. Peer hard and you can see the RA brake on the far side at the rear, and an RA-pattern sump. The motor has evolved to something like the TT, with a mechanical oil pump under the air box and an oil pressure gauge on top of the large air box.

Judd won two races on the day, the fastest at 86 mph. Allowing for the standing start, the bike must have been good for a lap of Brooklands at 90-ish mph in 1925.

Bailey's classic RA design lived on in all the racing Douglases, through to the final works bikes in 1932.

Leon

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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #98 on: 11 Dec 2018 at 02:01 »
Hi Leon,

If you wanted to become a speedway racer in the Antipodes in the late 20's and you could not get hold of,or afford a pukka DT you could use an OB and make yourself a Rex Judd "replica"!  :D...probably partially explains the scarcity of OB's and OC's these days! These pictures are from Kilbirnie stadium Wellington  1930.

https://natlib.govt.nz/items?i%5Bsubject%5D%5B%5D=Kilbirnie&i%5Bsubject%5D%5B%5D=Speedway+motorcycle+racing


Cheers

Ian


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Re: S.L. Bailey
« Reply #99 on: 11 Dec 2018 at 21:09 »
I prefer "look-alike" - "replica" sounds a bit too official. Interesting that the guy in the middle photo has cut down a full-electric OC - surely it deserved better.

By the TT in June 1925 Pullin's upgrade to the Bailey RA was complete.

Leon