Author Topic: Documents and frame numbers T35s  (Read 5272 times)

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Offline douglas1947

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Documents and frame numbers T35s
« on: 06 Mar 2016 at 16:48 »
Is it common, that in the documents on some T35s are not exactly the same: f.ex. T35S 274 on the frame, but only 274 in the log book.

Michael

Offline douglas1947

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Re: Documents and frame numbers T35s
« Reply #1 on: 21 Mar 2016 at 19:19 »
I wonder, that all readers have perfect documents.
I have 3 bikes T35s and all documents are not perfect!!!
In Germany you can get problems, when the number in the frame is not exactly the same as in the documents to the bike.
Has anyone experience?

Michael

Offline eddie

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Re: Documents and frame numbers T35s
« Reply #2 on: 21 Mar 2016 at 21:13 »
Michael,
             As I understand it, the early T35's had problems with frame breakages. Now, for the home market, the factory took the bikes back and fitted a replacement frame (which would have been stamped up with the original number). For overseas owners, the factory probably found it more economical to supply the local dealer with the frame and let them do the work (rather than ship the bike back to the UK and then return it). Now, the local dealers may have just stamped the number but omitted the model prefix.
  Quite a number of the early frames were replaced with later style frames with the subframe lower mount below the swinging arm (rather than above it). In these cases a replacement subframe would also have been supplied.
   Regards,
                Eddie.

Offline ccew350

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Re: Documents and frame numbers T35s
« Reply #3 on: 21 Mar 2016 at 22:45 »
Michael. I have seen and had logbooks with partial engine or frame numbers. Also in the 1970s I came across a motorcycle registered as a Fire Engine.
The DVLA did some odd things over the years.
Regards Colin.
colin

Offline douglas1947

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Re: Documents and frame numbers T35s
« Reply #4 on: 22 Mar 2016 at 07:05 »
Eddie,

it are not the frame numbers, it is the document which is not acurate, even in the original first green log books.
Is it in UK no problem, when the paper shows not the excatly the same number of both?
German authorities saying " it do not match!"

Colin,
yes, DVLA was also not acurate on newer document of my MK5:  number 1009/5B on frame = 1009/SB on doc.

What can I do, when I get trouble?

Michael


Offline ccew350

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Re: Documents and frame numbers T35s
« Reply #5 on: 22 Mar 2016 at 09:52 »
Michael. The first thing you could try is by contacting the DVLA and asking them. You can e-mail them at SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk   Give them the information you have and tell them of your problem. They may be able to confirm that the details are correct.
The other way is to go on the DVLA site on line.
Hope this helps, Regards Colin.
colin

Offline arturro

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Re: Documents and frame numbers T35s
« Reply #6 on: 22 Mar 2016 at 11:02 »
Dear All

I have T35 Mark3 from 1948. Bike was sold from factory to dealer in Amsterdam.  The frame number was replaced when orginal frame was destroyed for new one. Please look at photo.
Best regards Artur 

Offline douglas1947

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Re: Documents and frame numbers T35s
« Reply #7 on: 22 Mar 2016 at 18:00 »
Colin, thanks for DVLA email address.

Artur,
you have a complete new number to your frame. So it is no problem, when this number is also in your documents. Was the Douglas dealer authorisized to stamp this number?
By the way, your frame number is on a wrong position. Right place is on the downtube near headlug.

Michael

Offline arturro

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Re: Documents and frame numbers T35s
« Reply #8 on: 24 Mar 2016 at 12:45 »
Dear Michael
I bought this bike from Netherland in 2013. Bike is in unrestored condition , so just like Eddi said that "early T35's had problems with frame breakages"
in my opinion my bike had this case and bike have "unnormal frame numer".    Another case (maby) when frame numbers was done to the documents.
I have not orginal document for this bike , but I have orginal registration numer.

I don't know that this numer was stamped by Douglas dealer.    On the downtube near headlug no any numbers and letters.

Best regards Artur

Offline Dougiethenoo

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Re: Documents and frame numbers T35s
« Reply #9 on: 24 Mar 2016 at 13:15 »
I am in the middle of applying for new registration documents and title certificates in both the UK and US.
The British registration document has the frame number as 4835S and the engine number as 4835.
The US documents have the VIN as 4835/S.

The actual number stamped on the frame is barely legible. But it also includes the model - from memory is says something like:
T 35 / 4835 / S

I think it depends on who entered the information on the forms when registrations were made as to how accurate they are.

In order to obtain a title document for the bike, I have to get a police officer to inspect it and agree with the existing registered "VIN" - we will see if they can read it and agree that the short version is adequate!

Offline eddie

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Re: Documents and frame numbers T35s
« Reply #10 on: 24 Mar 2016 at 13:50 »
Hi Artur,
              Yes, your bike certainly looks like one of the early machines that had had their frames replaced under guarantee. It has the correct wide stand and the early chainguard with the pump mounted on it. The brake backplate is also the correct early type with 2 fixing studs for the chainguard.

  Douggie,
                The full frame number on early machines included the model number - yours should be T35/S/4835/S (that is model T35 with spring frame number 4835, and the final 'S' denotes it is a 'Sports'). A standard Mark 3 would be marked up T35/S/****/3. Later machines in the Mark 4&5 range only had the basic frame number, i.e. ****/4 or 5. Some had a suffix 'B' which denoted it was built with bronze lugs.

  Michael,
               It might pay you to contact Reg Holmes, the LDMCC membership secretary. Give him the frame and engine numbers of your bike, and see if he can come up with any more information on it. He may be able to establish whether it was originally a machine for the British market or an export machine, and which country it was despatched to. Armed with that information, you may be able to contact the relevant registration authority to establish which numbers it was originally registered with.

  Hope some of this helps,
                                        Regards,
                                                     Eddie.

Offline Dougiethenoo

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Re: Documents and frame numbers T35s
« Reply #11 on: 24 Mar 2016 at 14:48 »
Eddie
Thanks that is helpful to understand the numbering - I believe there is a 2nd S stamped on my downtime, as you state - good to know that it's for the frame type.
I need to take a rubbing of it as it's not easy to read and has not come out in any of my photos.