Author Topic: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"  (Read 10822 times)

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Offline mart

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1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« on: 30 Oct 2015 at 15:03 »
Hi All,

I am completely new to this forum. I has just purchased a Douglas and it needs a bit of work. I am a car collector and this is my first venture into vintage two wheels

I bought it yesterday and straight off the bat i know its going to take some time to fix it up and to source the parts, and once i have spent some time with it i will post about all the other parts i need.

I am looking for brake and clutch handle bar levers. Do you know where i can get original ones? Or if you have the same bike, could you please post pics of your levers so i can get ones that look similar. otherwise i will try find ones that are not original looking but still look good on the bike.

I am battling to find info on this model, I did see a post on this forum from about 2004 by Dave titled "bantam 5x1", which looks like a very nice bike. I read on foreign language website that there were only 300 of these models, and that only 3 where known to be around. But i am not sure if these figures relates to the early model with the Villiers engine or on the later Douglas two stoke copy engine. Maybe someone can share some info about this?

The bike also has absolutely no papers, so its going to be a battle to get it on the road. If there any members on this forum from South Africa which have registered a bike on the road that had no papers can you please let me know how much of a mission it was.

There will be updates in a few weeks once i get time to start working on it.
Thanks
Martin
« Last Edit: 01 Nov 2015 at 13:33 by mart »

Offline mart

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #1 on: 04 Dec 2015 at 21:25 »
So, today i started with the restoration. These bikes seems to be incredibly rare, so there is not much info available. I see that there are 2 members that have/had a Bantam and so it would be much appreciated if I could get some information to help with my rebuild. The bike has been stored for many years and and seems to have had very little use. I bought the bike 6 weeks ago and now i think i may have stumbled upon a bit of a gem. The paint on the front forks and the rims seems to be its original paint and is in remarkably good condition for the age. But the panels have had a poor respray many years ago.

I started with a full tear down, going through every thing, and the rear brake pad is like new, and based on the fiber in the pad it seems very old, so this makes me think that this bike has hardly been ridden.

The other interesting thing about the strip down was that this bike has the Villiers motor, and not the later douglas copy. This bike has the horizontal cooling fins on the engine so this must be a very early bike.

My plan it so clean it all up, and keep it all original. Ill keep the paint on the frame, rims, and fork as it currently is. But the panels and tank needs a respray. I'm not sure what i want yet, so i may rebuild it and then decide if i even want the tank resprayed since its so easy to pull it off later.

I need  a bit of help with the following. There is a small lever (see pic with finger) on the left hand side of the handle bar. What does this lever do? i cant see of the engine or gear box were anything must connect.

The second think i need help with is there is a small bolt in the engine case (see pic with finger).  i opened it and expected to see some oil to lubricate that part of the engine, but there wasn't any. should there be any oil on this side of the engine, and what does this bolt do.

The 3rd request is what oil should i use in the gear box?

thanks for the help.

See the below pics, and stay tuned for updates over the next week as i spend time on this.














[Pictures added. -Doug, Site moderator. 04Dec15]


« Last Edit: 16 Dec 2015 at 07:55 by Dave »

Offline Bert

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #2 on: 04 Dec 2015 at 22:55 »
Hi Mart
The lever looks like a decompressor/valve lifter.  As its a two stroke it isn't a valve lifter. I suggest that it would have been used as a cut out for the engine - if the head has a second spark plug hole. 

Offline mart

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #3 on: 05 Dec 2015 at 05:07 »
Thanks bert,

a bike cut off makes sense, since it wouldn't be a valve lifter. Ill wire that in at the end.

The other thing  is that part of the tank takes oil, and part takes 2 stroke oil petrol mix. I cant see where the oil line should be feeding so could someone please help me? Is it a total loss lubrication system, or it is to top up the lubricant in the engine/gearbox. Thanks that would be a great help

Offline Doug

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #4 on: 05 Dec 2015 at 05:20 »
martin,

The engine runs on a petrol-oil mix, there is no direct oil feed. The oil compartment was just so you could carry a supply of the proper oil with you. Incorporated into the cap was a measuring cup to provide the correct mixing ratio. I do not have a Bantam, but presumably there was a tap on the oil compartment so you could fill up the cup and dump it into the main tank with the next fill-up of petrol.

-Doug

Offline mart

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #5 on: 05 Dec 2015 at 09:20 »
Thanks Doug, i was very confused about why there was a split tank if the fuel is pre mixed. But to keep spare oil makes sense. there is a measuring tube inbuilt into the left cap. thanks for answering my question, must appreciated.

most 2 stoke engines dont need extra oil to oil the conrod/crank. So i think the fuel may the rich enough to lube these components as a bit of oil goes past the rings. But if any one could confirm this it would be great. But the bolt in the above pic makes me think i should put a bit of oil it there.

thanks for the help

Offline eddie

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #6 on: 05 Dec 2015 at 12:52 »
Mart,
        The bolt should just go into the crankcase chamber. It is there as a drain plug. 2 stroke engines draw the petrol/oil mixture into the crankcase before transferring it to the cylinder, so all mechanical parts get lubricated before the mixture gets ignited to propel the engine. Early 2 strokes could be temperamental on starting from cold and it was easy to flood them with fuel - in which case, removing the drain plug and turning the engine would expel the excess fuel from the crankcase. There is no point in injecting any extra oil as it will only lay in the bottom of the crankcase and serve no purpose - that is until it gets scooped up into the cylinder where it will probably foul up the spark plug!
     Regards,
                   Eddie.

Offline cardan

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #7 on: 05 Dec 2015 at 12:52 »
In a two stroke motor the fuel/oil/air mix goes from the carburettor through the inlet port to the crank case, where the big end is lubricated, before it is pushed up the transfer port into the cylinder. No need for a direct feed. The bolt is to drain the crankcase if the motor gets badly flooded - hopefully not a common occurence.

Leon

Offline mart

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #8 on: 05 Dec 2015 at 13:08 »
Thanks Leon and Eddie for the input. im fairly new to two stroke bikes so this has been a good way to learn.
I just noticed that the gear box casing in cracked where the clutch lever connects. I guess the lever put to much pressure on the casing. so i think this is going to be difficult to repair. i am going to have to find a metal specialist for this.
« Last Edit: 05 Dec 2015 at 13:15 by mart »

Offline Bob M

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #9 on: 06 Dec 2015 at 04:07 »
Hi Mart,
Sorry to be so slow to get in to the conversation but I'm not a Douglas owner so just visit occasionally. This site is a breath of fresh air after some of the drivellings elsewhere.
Your engine is an absolutely box stock standard 150cc Villiers Mk 12C. This was Villiers standard utility engine of the day and sold in the gazillions. Many bike manufacturers featured a cheap runabout at the bottom of their range and bought this engine to power it. Common as muck was the expression I believe which is probably why I feel so at home with them. Information abounds on this engine. All the usual sources, BMS, VMCC, etc, have the standard Villiers brochures, running instructions, spares lists and so on for it. Absolutely no problem.
The standard engine sprocket has either 14 or 16 teeth. If you lived in hilly country you opted for the 14, if on the flat then the 16. You photos show a vastly bigger engine sprocket and unless all the other sprockets have been altered to suit your engine won't pull the skin off a rice pudding. Not even a warm one.
The little trigger lever is for the standard decompressor device fitted in the head. These are still available brand new so no drama.
I've written enough to get the ball rolling, over to you.
Cheers, Bob (Villiers nutter)


 

Offline mart

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #10 on: 06 Dec 2015 at 06:43 »
Thanks bob for the info,
since im only 23yr old, i have a fair amount to learn, so i do enjoy reading things that experienced people post.
I believe that this is the decompression valve that the lever must connect to. My assumption is that the cable connects on the the bolt, and the sleeve goes into the valve ending, and this allows it to be pulled in. Thanks for the help, its much appreciated.

I just counted the sprocket, its a 23 teeth. Well observed, i would never have picked that up. I am planing on taking the bike down to cape town, so i guess i should opt for the 14 teeth. ill try find out where to buy these villiers parts online. would you by any chance have a 14 teeth that i could buy?

Thanks for the help.
Cheers

« Last Edit: 16 Dec 2015 at 08:01 by Dave »

Offline Bob M

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #11 on: 06 Dec 2015 at 10:56 »
Hi Mart,
Your choice of sprocket also depends on your size and weight. If you're under 6' and 95-100kg I'd go with the 16 tooth sprocket regardless of how steep you think your hills are. Of course I'm assuming the Bantam has a 3 speed box. If a 2-speed box then the 14 tooth engine sprocket will be necessary. 3-speed pre-war British lightweights always had wide ratio gearboxes with bottom so low you could haul a Tiger tank out of a Siberian swamp. They will climb anything but so slowly you can go to sleep whilst they are doing it. Believe me, any drop out of top gear will see you climbing hills at walking pace with the engine revving its head off. All quite normal I assure you.
Yes, that is the decompressor valve I was talking about and I see someone has done the standard bodge with a little washer because they've lost the factory clamping plate. This is a little flat plate with a ridge at one end that fits one of those slots you can see on the flat of the main body. The inner cable fits into the other slot with both clamped down by a 2BA screw through the flat plate. It works much better than a washer because it spreads the load over a much bigger area. The trick is to tin the end of the inner cable so the clamping force doesn't spread the strands everywhere.
Can I ask a question? The engine prefix for the regular version of this Villiers engine is GY. What is it for the Bantam? Still GY or possibly something like GYD?
Making a new engine sprocket is no drama. Villiers used the same 1:10 taper on the engine mainshaft regardless of the application. In short you start looking around amongst the lawnmower and stationary engine collectors and get what Villiers called a solid boss engine sprocket off one of them. You then have it rebanded with the sprocket size of your choice. Once you done it once you'll probably do another of the alternative size so you can compare the different performance and fit your preferred size.
Villiers are so easy as they used the same parts on all sorts of engines for donkeys years. You can guarantee there will be someone in every country town you go through who will have the remains of some Villiers powered device.
Cheers, Bob 

Offline Chris

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #12 on: 06 Dec 2015 at 15:50 »
Hi Mart and all other contributors to this thread
 I thought you might like some additional thoughts on the Douglas two stroke. Launched in 1933 and only listed for three years It is a very pretty machine and is my wife's favourite among my collection of Douglas models. Having said that it cannot be claimed to have been a great success. It was the only two stroke that Douglas actually put into production during their 50 year motorcycle history ignoring the Vespa era. As an attempt to provide a cheap commuter machine it failed. It was far too heavy (8" brakes on a 150cc machine was taking standardisation to ridiculous lengths). It had a very limited performane and as introduced with the Villiers engine proved to be unreliable subject to over heating and heavy chain wear. This was not to disparage the wonderful little Villiers engine but a reflection on the design which had the engine horizontal unlike other applications of this engine in numerous other makes. These problems prompted the introduction of the Douglas engine which is virtually a carbon copy of the Villiers engine with many parts interchangeable but with radical redesign of the cylinder barrel. The finning was changed to run axially with changes to the internal porting to improve cooling and lubrication of the piston. The machine was only produced in small numbers especially initially but is not quite as rare as Mart suggested in his early remarks. I know of several working models plus a number of other examples in the process of restoration and The London Douglas Club currently has 17 listed in its machine Register. The example found by Mart is exceptionally unusual in the extent of completeness and originality as found and apparently having such a small mileage. However it is surprising  under these circumstances that the handlebar area has been interfered with. The correct levers for clutch and front brake should be the reverse levers favoured by Douglas for most of the late 20s and all 30s models. The throttle should be straight pull with a built in air lever based on an alloy casting. I have the same throttle twist grip assembly also on my Endeavour of the same year. When I acquired my machine it was incomplete missing the carburettor and gearbox amongst other parts. A Douglas Guru was able to advise me on the model of three speed Albion gearbox I should use. I found three gearboxes in various states of completeness and condition at very reasonable prices at a major autojumble and was able to build two perfect gearboxes from these. It is a very common box used on many other makes of lightweight bikes. For the carburettor I approached the biggest stockists of Villiers spares who agreed to build me a complete carburettor from new old stock parts to suit the 150cc Villers engine although my engine is the later Douglas version. On completion of the machine It diid not run very well and I found it fussy in respect of carburation with the need to use the air lever continually to adjust the mixture. This should not be necessary as the air lever should only be a starting device and fully open once started. My Douglas Guru informed me that prewar Villiers engines are not he same as the later150cc models and I needed a larger carburettor. At another autojumble he informed me that the a body of the carb. I needed was available on a stall nearby. This was purchased and from his scrap boxes he was able to help me out with many of the internals. The parts still missing I acquired from the Villiers stockist. Installation of the new larger carburettor required mods to the manifold and also a new petrol pipe from the tank. It started and ran infinitely better to the extent that I took it to the Isle of Mann shortly after. After a run down to Douglas it was clearly still not quite right hunting and four stroking badly. Investigation showed the float to be punctured and half full of petrol. A new float solved the problem and the bike now runs beautifully and will sustain maximum revs without problem. That said the maximum speed from the road test carred out by Motorcycle magazine in 1934 was only 42 mph. Between the introduction of the bike until it ceased manufacture the build standard changed considerably to the extent that you are unlikely to see two machines the same. There are two different frames, at least two designs of front forks, two or three different designs of side panels the same with exhaust systems, different locations for the battery on the dynamo versions and many other minor changes. One very interesting feature is the fact that they used "Tram Handle Knobs" two each side to secure the tops of the side panels. These were originally used on the gear change levers on all of the 2.3/4 hp models with two or three speed gearboxes right up to the 1926 CW model. They must have had a tea chest of them left over in the stores. In due course I will try to upload some photos of the levers and twist grip.

Offline Bob M

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #13 on: 07 Dec 2015 at 08:32 »
Hi again Mart,
I have been ratting around my shed and found you a 13 tooth engine sprocket. It is a solid boss engine sprocket off a lawnmower and will fit your engine. You are welcome to it at the cost of postage and packing.
You can either get it rebanded to the factory 14 or 16 tooth sprocket for a Mk 12C or just keep it as a sample to show what you are after.
Let me know if you're interested.

Cheers, Bob

Offline David Lawrence

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #14 on: 07 Dec 2015 at 10:01 »
Hi Mart,
Good to see that you are working on the Bantam, it will guarantee the survival of yet another rare model made by Douglas, we would really appreciate it if you could PM us the frame, engine and gearbox numbers so that we may ensure it is entered into the Club machine register, if it has been hiding away from the UK it may have been overlooked in the past.
A note to Bob M "the villiers nut!" your comment on the engine numbers provoked an interesting thought, those engines fitted to Bantams are all GYH, perhaps they added the H because it is fitted in the horizontal position?? All the Douglas engines fitted have numbers that fit into the Douglas own sequences and are 15/A xxx or 15B/ xxx.
Good luck finding the parts required.
Dave

Offline mart

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #15 on: 07 Dec 2015 at 10:39 »
Thanks Bob and Chris for the reply.

So the engine number is GYH512, im not sure if the H is specific to Douglas bikes. Bob, Im sure you will know more about this

I weigh 85kg and 6 foot, so a little larger than the ladies it was designed for. I may have to cut back on a few beers to increase the power to weight ratio. Once the bike is up and running i will start playing around with ratios, ill probably only get round to this early next year. It does have a 3 speed Albion box, but i have yet to try it, so hopefully all is in working order once i have the cracked casing fixed. I guess ill just have to play around and find out which ratio i prefer for my type of riding, it would be a great help it i could get that sprocket from you Bob, ill message you. While we on the topic of gears, Chris, you said you used 3 gear boxes to make 2 good ones. My casing has cracked where the clutch lever connects. i was thinking of getting a specialist to weld it, but if you have a spare from your 3rd unused box that would be even better. If you have it i would be happy to buy it off you. Ill post a pic below of that part.

Bob, would you be able to post a picture of your decompression valve clamping plate if its not a hassle? ill see if i can make a plan, and make something similar to ease the pressure that is on that point. otherwise i will make do with the botch job for the mean time.

Chris i would we very interested in seeing some pics of your bike, to help me with my build. When you got time could please post a couple. No rush. thanks for letting me know about that throttle, i will do a bit of research to see what i can find about them, but ill probably have a few question on this topic in the future.

I do need reverse handle bar levers. They seem to come in standard sizes of 1 inch and 7/8th, but the inside diameter on the handlebars in 18mm (im used to working in metric). So it seems like i am going to have to get someone to custom make a set to 18mm unless i can find a set that fits already. Chris do you know anything about these levers, and weather or not my only option is custom made levers.

Just got back from a shopping spree, bought new nuts and bolts so that i can replace most of the ones currently on the bike. There is currently a mix of metric and imperial on the bike so i am swapping to metric. I think it originally came with imperial. But i don't think anyone will consider that cheating, its just easier for me to work in metric. The current treads are also damaged, so it needed a fresh set of bolts.

Dave ill PM you the numbers. Thanks for the input

Thanks guy for all the help, when i started this thread i wasn't expecting to get to much feedback. It amazing what you can learn off forums when you new to a hobby.
cheers
Martin
« Last Edit: 07 Dec 2015 at 10:56 by mart »

Offline Chris

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #16 on: 07 Dec 2015 at 13:22 »
Hi Mart
 Unfortunately where your gearbox has cracked is the usual place and in fact one of my three gearboxes was damaged in this area. The third gearbox had the front cover missing completely. I was able to repair the one that was cracked making good two complete gearboxes one of which I gave to another club member for use in another motorcycle. I have nothing left of the remains of the third. There is a comprehensive set of photographs of my Bantam already on this Forum. Use the search facility entering "Douglas Bantam Restoration" in the subject box and "Chris" in the posted by box. The thread started 21st of November 2005. In the posting I also listed the parts that I had to make and fabricate. A search for "Bantam" will give you a lot more entries and discussion on Bantam subjects. With regard to reverse levers these are available from a number of sources and in some cases the part that enters the handlebar is left oversize so that it can be machined to suit the handlebars. This is a problem if the levers are already plated. However, it is usual to have to machine a thin sleeve and use a set of levers where there is clearance in the handlebars to start with. I have had to do this on a number of my restorations. Incidentally I am almost the same height and weight as you and I have never had a problem on any hill. I will have to check on the number of teeth on the sprocket unless you can work it out from the photograph showing the drive side of the engine. I will post some pics of the twistgrip.   Chris.

Link to Chris' post "Douglas Bantam Restoration"
« Last Edit: 08 Dec 2015 at 17:47 by Dave »

Offline mart

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #17 on: 07 Dec 2015 at 19:10 »
ok thanks, i have actually read that thread and saved those pictures as a reference for my build. i just hadn't put two and two together that it was your bike, its very nice. It must have taken a lot of work, well done.

This afternoon I had a chat to a guy from a aluminium fabrication business about the possibility of welding the crack. He said the problem with these old bike cases in that some have pewter in them and they cant be welded, but if its aluminium then they should be able to. So hopefully this casing is just aluminium.

Chris i will PM you, i would like to have a chat to you. thanks

Offline Doug

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #18 on: 08 Dec 2015 at 04:36 »
Mart,

Pewter (99% tin) as an alloy constituent in aluminum? I would run away from that aluminum fabrication business! Sometime bismuth and lead are added to improve machine-ability at the expense of the ability to weld a very limited number of those 'free-machining' alloys; and those two elements are found in pewter.

Copper, silicon, and magnesium are the most common elements added as alloying elements for aluminum. There are some other bizarre ones that you do not need to really worry about in older castings. Some of the aluminum-copper alloys are very difficult to weld. However the main problem with welding the old castings are the impurities. Either impurities in the originally alloy that promote cracking or oxides (slag) that found its way into the mold, or due to the typically porous nature that over time has soaked up oil and grease that contaminate the weld zone. But I am pretty sure tin will not be a problem!

Cleaning the casting, boiling in detergent, heating to drive (sweat) out the oil all to reduce the contamination burden. Sometimes that is not enough and during welding you have to stir the weld puddle with a spare tungsten rod (tungsten inert gas welding recommended) to float the embedded impurities and slag to the surface where they can be sanded away. However you need to be mindful of the rapid hydrogen solubility with molten aluminum, which caused porosity when the aluminum solidifies, and keep the area protected with the inert shield gas. It is not uncommon to have to weld the area two or three times on a very porous casting to get a clean weld, and at that you still will always have some sort of dirty transition zone between the weld and the undisturbed parent metal. A firm that specializes in weld repair of old (<1930) automotive components will be use to the process. It all depends on how good the foundry's metallurgy and casting technique were. Slag and gas tend to find their way to the highest points in a mold. With some particularity bad examples, you just have to be satisfied with getting the parts structurally stuck together, regardless of the appearance of the weld. Other castings, just as old or older, weld beautifully.

-Doug
« Last Edit: 08 Dec 2015 at 14:22 by Doug »

Offline Chris

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #19 on: 08 Dec 2015 at 12:11 »
Hi All
Photos of the twistgrip and combined air control assembly will be added shortly to this message. Chris










[update to image file extension, case sensitive.  -Doug, Site moderator.  04Jan21]
« Last Edit: 05 Jan 2021 at 05:11 by Doug »

Offline Dave

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #20 on: 08 Dec 2015 at 17:42 »
Photos added to Chris' post above.

Offline mart

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #21 on: 08 Dec 2015 at 19:22 »
Ah that's fantastic, thanks for showing me that. I don't have that fitted on my bike. I'm going to have to hunt for one of those.
I have packed everything into boxes and parts are going to respray tomorrow. Im heading on holiday for a month, so ill start with the rebuild when i get home again. So i probably wont post much over the next few weeks. But as soon as i start with the rebuild ill post again.

Thanks to all for the contributions to this thread.
Enjoy your Chrismas

Offline mart

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #22 on: 15 Dec 2015 at 15:59 »
hi all.

Iv recently finished an 4 day off road motorbiking trip in the karoo, and i took Bobs advice. I looked around at some of the rusty old farm equipment on the farm we stayed on and found a machine with a villiers engine. it looked a little smaller then the one on my bike, but not much. The farmers kindly said i can take what ever i wanted off the machine, so i took the carburetor and the fuel out let tap. I was missing the 90 degree bend that fits onto the fuel tap so i was pleased to find that for my bike. But if anyone would like the carburetor then let me know. Just PM me. Since its been on agricultural equipment and sitting outside to ages its going to need a good clean.

If anyone knows of any throttle/choke assembly that is the same as the one on Chris's bike please let me know. i would be very interested.

Cheers
Mart





« Last Edit: 16 Dec 2015 at 07:43 by Dave »

Offline mart

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #23 on: 15 Dec 2015 at 16:07 »
The other thing is that i need the spacers that are used to clip the engine panels on (pic below) currently only my right panel has clips for easy removal, but the left of the frame has a slot for a tire pump so i think the left side panel should also have clips. So if anyone has 2 clips and 2 spaces that would be great. otherwise i will try 3D print them.

Cheers
Mart

« Last Edit: 16 Dec 2015 at 08:02 by Dave »

Offline mart

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #24 on: 04 Jan 2016 at 20:47 »
HI guys, i trust that everyone has had a good festive season.
Iv been away so i haven't done much on the Douglas.
I have joined the london club and am going to order water transfers.
I was going to order transfers that replicated what was on my bike, but it seems what is on my bike is incorrect. the writing currently on the tank is white with gold outline and please see pics at the top of the thread about the head stock currently on the bike.
I have been advised by Eric from the london club that the correct transfers are these. Chris would be able to confirm this please, i thought that the gold was correct since it matched the gold pinstripe on the tank, but evidently not. Can you also confirm about weather there should be a Scotsman transfer on the rear mus guard?

The second issue i have is with my electronics. It was a complete mess so i am redoing it all, and converting to a 12v system.
I see that some bikes have a little alternator/generator that sits above the gearbox, can anyone point me in the right direction about where to get one. I was going to use one off a modern bike but i dont think its going to be easy to convert it to fit a chain. there is a business in the uk that makes a suitable one for 320 pounds, but i done feel like spending that.
Thanks for the help
« Last Edit: 04 Jan 2016 at 20:53 by mart »

Offline Bob M

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #25 on: 05 Jan 2016 at 06:04 »
Hi Mart,
As of today I'm mobile again so got to the Post Office and sent the engine sprocket. I also included a little blurb about the decompressor valve and Villiers engine sprockets in general.
Modern electronics have come so far there are multiple answers to your query as far as lighting goes but whatever you do, for the ignition system stick to the standard Villiers system. Historically it has an undeserved reputation as unreliable but nowadays with parts made from modern materials and modern insulation it will give a spark you could see on the moon and be bog reliable. All ignition parts are available new from Villiers Services in the UK.

Happy New Year to all,
Bob

 

Offline Chris

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #26 on: 05 Jan 2016 at 10:54 »
Hi all
The authority for transfers is lost in time but the most reliable information is compiled in a list provided in a publication which I believe dates from the early 70s which must have been researched from earlier evidence. The No 11 transfer (White with Black edges) is given as 'Tank 2.3/4hp from 1913. 4 hp. 1916 to 1921. Some SW5/6, DT5/6 and Bantam 1934 to 1937.' I have used this on my Bantam which like yours does have gold pinstriping on the tank and panels. The listing mentioned above does have holes in the information making it difficult in some cases to be adamant about what is correct for some models. Some of the descriptions also appear to be contradictory. This is a case in point as the White with Gold edge transfer No 13 is described as being used on 'Tanks from about 1932 used on blue panel of most saddle tank models'. The translation of this is that as No 11 specifically mentions The Bantam and No 13 only says 'Most' of Saddle tank models it has been accepted that The Bantam is the exception. No 16 transfer Scotsman holding engine in gold is listed as being used on 'Headstock and rear mudguard of all 2.3/4 models from 1915 to approx. 1935, then Aero, NOT 4hp'. I do not have the No 16 transfer on the rear mudguard of my Bantam for two reasons. One is that strictly speaking it is not a 2.3/4 hp model being only 150cc nominally although I do have it on the headstock. The second and most important reason is that there is no room for it. 2.3/4hp models usually have a small rear number plate fixed at the top to the rear of the carrier. There is then quite a bit of bare mudguard between the bottom of the number plate and the rear stand clip making plenty of room for the transfer and enhancing the appearance of the bike. The Bantam has a normal legal sized rear number plate fitted directly to the mudguard top and bottom. When fitted so that the surface is vertical it is so low on the mudguard that there is insufficient space between the bottom of the number plate and the rear stand clip for a transfer. Chris.
 

Offline mart

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam"
« Reply #27 on: 12 Aug 2016 at 08:22 »
Hi all.
Sorry its been a while since i have done an update. I'm doing postgraduate accounting/finance this year so i don't have much time to work on the bike during the semester.
I have received a few goodies in the post over the last few months.
The reverse levers i got Alan Clark, they are beautifully made. Thanks to Chris for recommending i buy Alan's levers.

I also got an Albion gear box casing from Hitchcocks since mine had cracked.
As soon as i fitted the new casing and tested the clutch, it broke in the exact same place. so that was money gone down the drain.
I thought the only option was to get one made in a harder metal and make a few modifications so that it would be able to withstand the clutch pressure. So i got a fabrication shop to make one. Ill fit it in my next holidays. Fingers crossed.
« Last Edit: 12 Aug 2016 at 08:33 by mart »

Offline mart

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam" Update on rebuild
« Reply #28 on: 05 Jan 2021 at 02:57 »
Hi All,

its been along time since iv updated this thread.
Iv been completing my studies, and so it went on the back burner.
As im sure many of you found, Covid19 lock down was an ideal time to spend more time in the garage tinkering on projects.

I have a few member private message me about parts then are missing on there bikes, so i through id provide some more pics and areas i struggled with.
This is my 1st project bike, as the above posts will attest, i have had much to learn. This bantam was the perfect bike to learn on as its not complicated, and was largely complete to start with.

I have had a few parts fabricated at a local machine shop:
1) I was missing two knobs for the engine covers. they made a copy out of steel based on the baker-light original. Makes left and right look correct.
2) I was missing the rear fuel tank bracket. It connects onto the gear level bracket, raises about 5mm and then its diagonal for the unusual placement of the bolt holes. I drew it on paper as i didnt have a sample, but on version two i got it perfect and fits snug.
3) The gear box housing continued to be problematic. The stronger gearbox housing i had custom made did not allow for the original kick start spring and mechanism. So i had a plate milled, and a new custom spring to allow for the lever to return. Have the two cracked casing and will try repair them in due course as mentioned by above posts. Thank you for the input.
4) i have done the wiring based on a Villiers wiring diagram.

I have moved over to Australia, and ill ship the bike over in due course.
still need to sort out the paint work, and get a Amal straight pull throttle in 7/8 inch. If anyone has one, please let me know, would be much appreciated. I have search endlessly, but will continue to keep a look out.

Thanks for all the help on this forum.
Appreciate all the help
Martin





« Last Edit: 05 Jan 2021 at 03:05 by mart »

Offline cardan

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Re: 1933 Model 5X1 "Bantam" Update on rebuild
« Reply #29 on: 05 Jan 2021 at 05:32 »
I have moved over to Australia

Welcome to our big land! Bike looks terrific - well done.

Leon