Author Topic: headlamp bracket 1913  (Read 7798 times)

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Offline steveale

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headlamp bracket 1913
« on: 29 Aug 2015 at 03:12 »
Anyone have a good picture of a '13 bracket for headlamp.  The mount comes up from the base of the neck, has a slot in it for the brake cable to go through.  There is a single hole on a square metal tab at the top of the bracket.  I've scoured the interweb and it appears there were a number of variations on mounting.  I've seen a couple of mounts like mine but the pic is not at a good angle.  It appears that an slot slides over the aforementioned tab, then it "Y's" and goes to each ear of the lamp.  Also appears most are round stock after leaving the neck mount and then have rounded mounting holes to go over the bolt studs in the lamp.

I'll try to get a picture of my mount and post up.  I want to fabricate a replacement as exact to original as I can determine.

thanks as always...

steve
« Last Edit: 29 Aug 2015 at 03:23 by steveale »

Offline cardan

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Re: headlamp bracket 1913
« Reply #1 on: 29 Aug 2015 at 12:47 »

The bracket is called a "spade mount", and there were lamps to suit with an appropriate clamp at the back.

Leon


Offline steveale

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Re: headlamp bracket 1913
« Reply #2 on: 29 Aug 2015 at 13:55 »
Thanks Leon,

I actually found this picture last night after I had posted.  Appears that my lucas 462 is the wrong lamp for my mount.  I'll have to fabricate a "make do" bracket.  I assume finding a lamp like that will be a needle in a haystack endeavor.

I also noticed the curly bulb horn...interestingly I thought in that year they had the lucas straight horn.  Just shows even back then there were "options"  LOL.

Offline cardan

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Re: headlamp bracket 1913
« Reply #3 on: 29 Aug 2015 at 14:01 »

All the lights, horn etc were options back then, and there were many manufacturers.

There was after-market bracketry to adapt side-mount lights to a spade mount, I guess because spade mount was on the way out around 1913-14. If I get time I'll take some photos tomorrow.

Leon

Offline chris mac

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Re: headlamp bracket 1913
« Reply #4 on: 29 Aug 2015 at 22:25 »
This is what my headlamp bracket looks like, sort of like a push bike
Best
Chris Mac

Offline Doug

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Re: headlamp bracket 1913
« Reply #5 on: 30 Aug 2015 at 00:40 »
This image might be a little too early, as it dates to 1910. But for what it is worth...



-Doug

Offline steveale

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Re: headlamp bracket 1913
« Reply #6 on: 30 Aug 2015 at 02:11 »
yep, both those brackets look like mine.  Chris' is actually exactly like mine, the one Doug posted is a little longer looking...

Offline cardan

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Re: headlamp bracket 1913
« Reply #7 on: 30 Aug 2015 at 21:50 »

A typical adapter bracket.

Leon


Offline steveale

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Re: headlamp bracket 1913
« Reply #8 on: 31 Aug 2015 at 02:08 »
Thanks leon.  Since my tab had a hole drilled in it for the prior bracket that was way too flimsy for my needs I have been tinkering with some flat steel mocking some suitable brackets for my cross country run.

Then it hit me...i needed a bit of "luck".

my farrier swung by today and he did some heating and bending to my instruction.  Then I had to do some drilling, cutting, grinding and welding to come up with a nice little custom bracket.

I cut slots down to drill holes so the light can just drop in/out of the bracket.  Since it had only one hole existing in the tab and didn't want to further modify anything on the bike, I welded stops on the back side of the shoe to make sure the bracket wouldn't wobble side to side.

And the horse is pointed up so the luck won't run out...  :-)

Edit: I'm going to run LED lighting for the cannonball, I've removed the original carbide torches and put them away for safekeeping.

Offline eddie

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Re: headlamp bracket 1913
« Reply #9 on: 31 Aug 2015 at 13:43 »
Hi Steve,
              That's a mighty bracket you have had made - the only problem is whether the original lamp bracket will be strong enough to carry it. The height and mass of your adaptor bracket will put a severe strain on the original bracket. Personally, I would have opted for something of tubular construction that kept the lamp mounted as close as possible to the original attachment to the forks - thus keeping the load and leverage on that single bolt fixing to a minimum.
Regards,
              Eddie.

Offline Doug

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Re: headlamp bracket 1913
« Reply #10 on: 31 Aug 2015 at 13:52 »
Perhaps an aluminum racing horse shoe...   :)

-Doug



[Fix typo. 31Aug15 -Doug]
« Last Edit: 31 Aug 2015 at 16:21 by Doug »

Offline steveale

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Re: headlamp bracket 1913
« Reply #11 on: 31 Aug 2015 at 15:33 »
I thought about both the capability of the original bracket to hold the fixture vs. a lighter material.  The original bracket is very sturdy, it has a partial I beam construction for rigidity.  I also opted to make the bracket go vertical instead of horizontal to relieve stress.  Here is a final pic.  I will be doing test runs later this fall after the engine is rebuilt, I'll be watching it closely to see how it holds up. 


Offline chris mac

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Re: headlamp bracket 1913
« Reply #12 on: 31 Aug 2015 at 20:16 »
I would have thought something more like this if you're looking to look period.  Some states have daylight running light laws but I doubt the Highway Patrol is looking to bust Cannonballers, I'd be more concerned with fixing up some sort of Rear / Stop lamp .
I did a Trial once and wore one of those reflective X thingees and the old girl sewed some white LEDs in the front and some red on the back, battery in my pocket.    I looked like a Christmas advert but you could sure as hell see me
Best
Chris Mac

Offline cardan

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Re: headlamp bracket 1913
« Reply #13 on: 31 Aug 2015 at 22:08 »

Hi Steve,

In another thread I expressed concern about your forks. If you use a disc brake on the front that actually works you risk folding the forks under or snapping them off, particularly if the torque reaction is taken down near the bottom. They were never designed for an efficient front brake and 100 years on rust and fatigue has not made them any stronger.

In the first Cannonball Run a veteran-BSA-mounted German competitor snapped off all four of his fork tubes - without the help of a disc brake - but luckily survived. A "Sears" (basically a Spacke De Luxe  V-twin motor with Harley internals replacing the interesting De Luxe arrangement and a replica frame with a TLS Suzuki Titan front brake) went down the road at high speed after a speed wobble. The bike was reduced to rubble, but again the rider survived.

Be careful!

Leon

Offline steveale

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Re: headlamp bracket 1913
« Reply #14 on: 02 Sep 2015 at 00:19 »
Thanks guys...Chris, I'll keep looking for a lamp with the correct fitting...just have not seen one yet.


Leon, I've been told about the concerns with disc brakes on these old forks.  These are not motorcycle brakes, they are the smaller and less efficient bicycle disc brakes.  I've actually been thinking about not running it on the front and just using the original style with new pads.  I appreciate you pointing out any risks...I have a wife and daughter that expect me to return home after this.  My good friend just bounced hard at the irish national rally last week.

Offline chris mac

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Re: headlamp bracket 1913
« Reply #15 on: 03 Sep 2015 at 03:09 »
Steve
Just to be clear, the horseshoe type fitment is the most common one I've seen, this is the one on my mate Tony Windeatts bike. I was just suggesting something a bit simpler that would not involve much fabrication.
Perhaps I'm missing the ethos of the Cannonball event, but if putting bicycle disc brakes on is acceptable, why not just pop down to your bicycle shop and get one of the LED lights which just clamp on to the handlebar and a red one for the back stay'
If you get a GPS too you'll know where you are and how fast you're going
If your 13 is anything like mine it'll barely pull the skin off a rice pudding so I don't think you need to be punching a light out front 100 yards, I still say, think like a cyclist, be visible.
Do you actually do any stages at night ?
Best
Chris Mac

Offline steveale

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Re: headlamp bracket 1913
« Reply #16 on: 03 Sep 2015 at 21:15 »
The cannonball runs only in the day but has a tech inspection.  In most states in the USA daytime running lights are law and the cannonball wants to insure that we are compliant.  You can put any safety equipment on the bike as an allowable improvement.  Many run the original clinchers and brake configurations, but not many. 

I am trying to maintain some of the original look of the bike by keeping the lamp configurations. 

Offline Black Sheep

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Re: headlamp bracket 1913
« Reply #17 on: 08 Sep 2015 at 13:23 »
Had a 75 mile gallop through the Scottish borders on my 1913 2 3/4 on Sunday. Blue sky, sunshine (and this is Scotland remember) and the old beast was packing 30 miles into the hour. It couldn't under any circumstances go any faster. Is this fast enough for the Cannonball? At the end of it, walking upright took a bit of practice. Day after long day in the saddle could turn out to be a nightmare of torture.
All for LED running lights. I will fit bicycle ones following an oncoming pensioner driver on the wrong side of the road incident. Clearly a fluorescent and reflective vest isn't good enough these days. Drivers expect every vehicle to be lit up like a Christmas tree at all times. Skinny old motorcycles just don't register.
Best of luck with this wildly insane adventure. I am slightly envious...   

Offline steveale

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Re: headlamp bracket 1913
« Reply #18 on: 08 Sep 2015 at 15:00 »
I need to coax 45mph out of her to get the daily miles in.  30 would leave no wiggle room.  Hopefully the engine rebuild/mods and proper gearing and we'll get it.  I plan on doing some type of updates from the road during the event.  As we get closer I'll share the links/locations.

Offline Black Sheep

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Re: headlamp bracket 1913
« Reply #19 on: 08 Sep 2015 at 19:38 »
You are asking a lot of an old lady. Just think of the minimal finning, the possible air temperatures and the heat the engine will be producing to run at these speeds. There is also the intriguing phenomenon of the combined cylinders and head castings distorting with the heat which reduces their efficiency - which is why a cold engine will climb a gradient when a hot one won't.
Best of luck and let's hope you get cool temperatures and following winds.