1911 Wheels

[Chris54]

Hi All, Can anyone advise on what gauge spokes where fitted in 1911 Model D wheels.
Measuring the old ones they seem to be 12 gauge (2.56mm), however measuring the spoke hole in the hub which is 3.2mm 12 gauge seems a little small, also the nipple hole in the rim is 6mm, these hole sizes suggest to me that the spokes should be more like 10 gauge

Regards Chris

[cardan]

Hi Chris,

Most lightweight motorcycles in 1911 would have had 13g spokes. Even medium weight bikes - 3 1/2 h.p. Triumphs and the like - would typically use 12g. I doubt that any 1911 motorcycle would use 10g in the front wheel; perhaps a v-twin sidecar hauler. Your measurement of 2.56mm (about 101 thou) is a bit under the usual size for 12g (0.104") but bigger than 13g (0.092").

Some spokes were "butted" - thicker at the hub end for an inch or so. If the hub is original it may be that the original spokes were butted, say 12/13g.

Hopefully someone can come up with a number from period literature.

Edit: Forgot to say that nipples come in different diameters for any given spoke gauge, usually in 0.025" steps. If you want to use 13g spokes, you need to specify the nipples as "13g, 0.225"".

Leon

[Chris]

Hi Chris and Leon
When I purchased my model D, it had bicycle rims with wired tyres simply because 26" x 2" beaded edge tyres had not been available for some years. Literally three weeks after the purchase a notice appeared in The Old Bike Mart that a batch of beaded edge tyres of the correct size had been produced in the far east and were now available. I rebuilt the wheels with new rims having ordered the new tyres which came with the correct size inner tubes. I used 13 gauge spokes which seemed correct for the holes in the Chater Lee hubs and 0.2" barrel nipples to suit the holes in the rims which were pre-drilled. These have been satisfactory in 14 Pioneer Runs and many other runs in England and on the continent. On later 2.3/4hp models I use 12 gauge spokes except on my CW model fitted with a sidecar which kept breaking spokes in both cycle wheels and the sidecar wheel. I cured this by rebuilding the wheels with 10 gauge spokes since when this has has also been entirely satisfactory. I believe that Douglas originally used 11gauge spokes on the later 2.3/4hp models but for some unknown reason this is the only size not currently produced. Chris.

[cardan]

A good, economical source of spokes, including 11g, made to your specified length: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/171341769840

Leon

[Chris54]

Thank you Leon and Chris, I have checked the suppliers website and will be ordering soon, have to wait until the rims are back from blasting and powder coating and hubs from plating can then measure the length required.

do we know how the originals would have been built, with 3 or 4 cross lacing, also does anyone know if the rear has any offset in it.

Chris

[cardan]

Hi Chris,

A front wheel is very rarely 4-cross - more likely 3.

Re offset, you can get this with a straight-edge in your frame. If you put the hub in place, the centre of the rim must be in line with the steering head and therefore the tubes of the front part of the diamond which are also on the centre-line of the bike. I'm pretty sure that front and rear Douglas wheels are both built on the centre of the hub.

If you need to check spoke lengths to suit your rims, hubs and cross pattern, try my spoke length calculator. http://earlymotor.com/leon/misc/html/spoke.htm

Cheers

Leon