T35 frame number

[arturro]

Dear All
Where I can find frame number on my T35 mark 3 from 1948. Baseed on information from LDMC frame number should be the same like engine number. 
But I found only one number on the top tube where tank is fitted.   This number is different like engine number. Frame number is 10B447960B   but engine number is T35/S/4853/3  and the frame number should be 4853. 
My question is where this correct number is stamp?
Best regards Artur

[David Lawrence]

Hi Artur,
Regarding your question about the frame number of your mk3. You are correct the frame number and engine number would have been the same when the bike was made. Because the Douglas engine is so easy to change from frame to frame many of the bikes numbers do not match.
The number you have given for your frame does not match anything ever used by the factory.
Douglas stamped the number on the down tube part of the headstock, near the tank, usually on the left side if you are sitting on the bike, it has been known for some to be on the right hand side! but the number is usually very obvious.
Could you take a photograph of the number (or make a pencil rubbing of the number) and either post it here on the forum or send direct to my email address I will check up with our records and see if we can solve your problem.
Is it possible that the number was changed on the frame when the bike was imported into Poland, have you any records of how the bike arrived in your country?
I wait to hear from you.
Dave

[eddie]

 The 10 digit frame number would not have been original - so this begs the question "Is this a later frame or one replaced by the factory under guarantee in the early years?" I would expect a replacement frame to have been stamped with the original number or  have no number at all. When dealing with guarantee claims on export machines, the factory often just supplied the replacement part for the importer to fit - hence, they probably wouldn't have been numbered. If it turns out to be a later frame, could it be a badly stamped number with the 'HPN' prefix? - maybe HPN 7960B??? This would put it in the Mark 4 series (where this HPN experiment took place), and it should, therefore, have the lowered bottom mount for the rear subframe.

Regards,
               Eddie.

[arturro]

Dear All
Please find photo with frame number on my T35. 
Base on information from LDMC : "If the bike is original as it was sent out from the factory, the frame number would be the same as the engine number. i.e. T35/S/4853/3. I am not sure if you have given me the casting part number of the steering head lug. The frame number is stamped on the left hand tubing that carries the left hand front down tube where it meets the bottom of the frame. If the frame and engine number match then your machine 4853 was sent to Douglas dealer N.V.Croes of Holland on 8 October 1948."

Dear Dave bike wasn't sold to Poland from factory.   In 1948 we were on Soviet area "iron courtain" and it was impossible to get any bike from UK.
I bough this bike last year from Holland so I think that information from LDMC is realistic.  Maby this frame number is when engine is fitted to replacement frame.
My bike looks very orginal so I was thinking that frame is orginal.

Is anybody who can send me photo where orginal frame numbes are stamped? 
I will be grateful for any answer

[arturro]

my photo frame

[eddie]

Artur,
          That is not an original Douglas frame number - it has been re-stamped at some time. The original frame number would have been on the lower leg of the headlug - just in front of the petrol tank and just at the bottom as viewed in your photo. Without seeing the rear end of the frame, it is difficult to tell whether your frame is of the original type or a later version (Mark 4 or 5). If it is a later frame, the number will probably have a 4B or 5B suffix - the 'B' denotes that the frame has bronze lugs.

   Regards,
                 Eddie.

[arturro]

Dear Eddie
Can you look at the photos rear end of the frame.  What do you thnink. Is it Mark 3 frame or Mark 4 or 5.
I will be grateful for answer.

[arturro]

next one photo

[eddie]

Artur,
           When the Mark 3's first came out, they had the rear subframe lower mount just above and behind the swinging arm pivot. Quite a few of these frames suffered from fractures that were put down to the complex stresses set up in the swinging arm pivot lug. To overcome this, Mr Douglas supplied replacement frames that had the lower mount moved to the bottom of the lug (as on your frame). This also required a modification to the subframe to match the main frame. Looking closely at your frame, it has straight sided plates where the nose of the saddle fits - on later frames, these plates were curved. From this, I would assume your frame to be one of those that were replaced under guarantee (and may not have been stamped by the factory). Later, this may have caused problems with local registration authorities when machines needed to be identifiable for the purposes of roadworthiness testing - (in the UK, the MOT) - in which case a new number may have been issued. This number may not have had any relevance to the original and may have been something like a combination of the number of the issuing office and the date of issue - anything was possible!
    There are quite a few Mark 3 machines around with the Douglas supplied replacement frames which are often mistaken for later Mark 4 or 5 frames.
  Hopefully, this helps a little.

  Regards,
                 Eddie.

[David Lawrence]

Artur,
Eddie is quite correct in what he has told you, the frame is almost certainly a works replacement, as the bike went direct to Holland we must assume that the replacement frame was also sent to Holland, it was therefore unlikely to have been stamped at the factory with the original number. I cannot see from your picture any evidence of a "Douglas" stamp on the down tube part of the headstock. As Eddie says It would be likely that the Dutch taxation people will have stamped the frame number. My understanding is that several European countries issue their own identification numbers which do include as part of the number a year of registration, perhaps one of our Dutch Douggie people could throw more light on that.
The bike is as original as most other Douggies on the road, I should not worry too much about the missing frame number. Your bike is not listed on our Club machine register, if you have no objection we will add it with the history of how it travelled to Poland and its unique frame number! I suspect that it is the only mark 3 in Poland, as you mention no post war machine got past the "iron curtain" legally anyway
Good luck with the bike ENJOY.
Dave