identify Douglas

[T.E.Hopen]

Hi
Need help identifying my Douglas .........
Have problems with reading the framenumber without removing the paint but it looks like DXE668 ?
Engine number is EO2546, -I also have a engine with number  EO 863.
Can anyboby help ?


Best regards
Hopen

[Chris]

Hi Hopen
      I think your Douglas may be a machine from the early 1930s The frame number prefix is probably YF not XE followed by a number. The 'D' in front is probably the Douglas trademark D with a K inside which stands for Douglas of Kingswood. I suggest also that the engine numbers prefix that you have are also incorrect with the EO actually being EQ followed by the number. The model would then be most likely a 600cc S6 or T6 of 1930 to 1933 or a related development.
   If you can post some photographs it might help in confirming the model.
Chris.

[T.E.Hopen]

Hi Chris

Pics are sent to photos@douglas......  You can also see a pic. on my profile.
I think you are rigtht about the prefix, but is it possible to find the exact year and date of production from the prefix?
 
Hopen

[Dave]

Photos added.

[Chris]

Hi Hopen
   It is as I expected a T6 model and if the frame number is correct at 668 then it is 1930. The main differences between the T6 and S6 is that yours has twin springs on the front forks, alloy footboards and a rear carrier. The S6 has no carrier, has footpegs and a single central spring on the front forks.
Chris.

[David Lawrence]

Hi Hopen,
I write as the ex registrar of the London Douglas Club, and was interested in the data you have published regarding your bike. I agree with Chris that your bike looks very like a T6 but have 1 reservation, sadly I am not very familiar with the fine detail of this era but have checked our records, the frame number you quote could be XF668, which is listed as an E29/F29 and is fitted with engine number EQ863 which seems far to much of a coincidence as this matches your spare engine number. Chris is correct the KD mark is often confused as part of the frame number.
I suggest it may be worth contacting our present registrar Mr Len Boydell as he keeps all the information we have on the history of individual machines, later information than my old register may show if and when the engines were changed.
If you would like to do this and are a Club member his address is in the New Conrod, otherwise let me know at my email addess here and I will get him to contact you.
Dave

[Chris]

Hi Holpen
     As fellow members of the LDMCC Dave and I should not be arguing about this but it largely depends upon the true frame number of the machine that you have. If it is truly XF668 it is certainly listed in our machine register as an E29 but the engine is definitely an S6 or T6 also the machine register entry of the engine number EQ 863 is the only entry with that prefix in the listing of E29 machines for which the most common prefix is EH. The cycle parts and the running gear are very similar for the two models. If the frame prefix is XF than as Dave says it is an E29 frame and the machine is a hybrid with the wrong engine, If the frame prefix is YF then the machine is a T6 model with the entry in the machine register incorrect. I think you will have to scrape off the paint to determine the exact frame number. From the prefix it would appear that your other engine is also S6 or T6
Chris.

[Doug]

All,

Well, it may be more complicated...

The frame does seems to have features of 1929 model. The front foot board mounting is through the cross tube. The 1930 models had a additional lug in the crotch of the lug for a 3/8 bolt to attach the front end of the foot board bracket; clearly not present.

The gusset under the saddle is generally associated with the T6/S5/S6 models of 1930 onward, but it was introduced for the E/F29 models, though catalog illustrations show it without. 

One other salient feature, which I can not discern from your pictures: The 1929 models continued the practice of mounting the transmission on a continuation of the engine tubes. The 1930 heavyweight models replaced this with a large malleable cast platform for the transmission to sit on.

-Doug

[oil baron]

Hi there

It is appears that the tank is an earlier E/F 29 tank with oil compartment, i.e. 2 filler caps,  which of course would not be required with the S/T 5/6  type motor with a sump.  It is not very likely that Mr Douglas was using up type earlier tanks as there were some models in the range in 1930 and over the next few years that required the oil compartment.  The lug at the front of frame is missing the separate lug on which the footboard bracket was bolted on the S/T 5/6.  Another possible clue, going by the photos, that it may be a E/F29 frame is that the S/T 6 engine is quite a quite a tight fit in it,  the front cylinder is very close to the mudguard and it appears pretty close to the seat tube as well.  Going from memory the S/T 6 motor is longer overall than the earlier motor,  whether there was any alteration to the length of the S/T 5/6 frame to accommodate the slightly longer motor I do not know, but possible. Perhaps someone can get the tape measure out and let us all know.
Regards  Steve L

[T.E.Hopen]

Hi

have been in my garage again, and found a number on the gearbox, and it seems to be WG 2546
Framenumber seems to be XF 668
Enginenumber is EQ 2546 and EQ 863
 

Hopen

[David Lawrence]

Hi Folks,
To quote our Doug "Well it may be more complicated....."
Thats very true, The frame number XF668 fits exactly into the E29/F29 series, there are 22 of these on record and 668 sits more or less in the middle, the engine number EQ863 is definitely from the S6 models, whereas, the gearbox number WG2546  fits comfortably within the E29 range. The S6 series although similar, almost all those on record have the prefix WG/T****.
The fact that  the engine fitted has the number EQ2546 which matches the gearbox is an amazing coincidence!! the EQ designation is S6 whereas the gearbox is E29, making the match very unlikely particularly as Douglas did not normaly match them (until the post war Dragonflies). My knowledge is insufficient to advise accurately but it may be worth comparing the detail of the two engines, I am sure someone with more detailed information will tell you the differences between an E29/L29 (500 & 600) engine and the S6 EQ series engines. You would then be certain which engine is actually fitted irrespective of the number stamped on it! Sadly our records do not list the gearbox number of the machine with the frame number XF668.
One tip for clarifying unclear numbers that can avoid scraping off the paint is to take a "brass rubbing" this is done by holding firmly a thin piece of paper over the frame lug or crankcase and rubbing a soft pencil across the number. The result can produce a surprisingly clear white image on the black background.
Good luck with your search for the history of the bike, but take my advise, don't worry too much, the bike looks good and is there to be ENJOYED!
Dave

[Chris]

Hi Folks
   I was assessing the model, after guessing what the frame and engine numbers might be, from the photographs which clearly show the engine to be S6. This engine is very different from that of the E29 in many respects although both are 600cc, notably the shape of the timing chest, the position and shape of the inlet manifold, large ribbed sump, updraft carburettor in front of  timing chest instead of horizontal carburettor on manifold over the top of the engine. The engine in the bike also has the S6 exhaust manifold and silencer.
    With a 1929 E/29 frame and a choice of 1930 S6 engines it is clearly a "Special" but very well done and an attractive mount.
Chris.

[graeme]

No arguments from me here regarding the possible make up of this machine, but I thought I should mention that the S6 engine is also a very tight fit in an S6 frame. On my S6, the removable plug on the front cylinder head (for finding t.d.c.) sits so close to the front mudguard that a patch of paint on the guard has burnt off! Any closer and it would actually scrape the guard - there really is the proverbial fag paper gap.

[T.E.Hopen]

Found  L 106 as well….on the engine,-Does it make any sense ?

[Doug]

If the number is near the crankcase joint it might well be a machine match number. If so there ought to be the same code on the opposite side of the joint. Cases were machined as matched sets, and the code ensured mating pairs were reunited. Usually the number is just two digits, but presumably if they were machining a particularly large batch of cases they could run a bit over one hundred. 

-Doug

[Vitesse]

Found  L 106 as well….on the engine,-Does it make any sense ?

Wow; 11 years later!  A detailed search indeed.