Author Topic: What model tank?  (Read 13168 times)

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Offline Dirt Track

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What model tank?
« on: 29 Dec 2008 at 22:08 »
G'day all
Does anyone have any idea what model this tank is off?
It has a cable operated oil pump!
Howard.

« Last Edit: 30 Dec 2008 at 18:31 by Dave »

Offline Doug

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Re: What model tank?
« Reply #1 on: 30 Dec 2008 at 03:14 »
Howard,

I have seen pictures of what I believe were an early/pre-production 350EW with that filler and hand pump location. Before they presumably moved the oil compartment up to the front of the petrol tank on production models.

-Doug
« Last Edit: 04 Jan 2009 at 05:21 by Doug »

Offline Dirt Track

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Re: What model tank?
« Reply #2 on: 02 Jan 2009 at 22:49 »
G'day all
I have had another Douglas expert express an opinion that it is a TT tank....any comments!
It did come with a job lot of TT/S1/DT/OB parts purchased years ago.
Howard.

Offline Doug

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Re: What model tank?
« Reply #3 on: 02 Jan 2009 at 23:20 »
All the various 1923-28 TT models I have seen to date carried the oil in an alloy sump below the engine. They also would have a place to screw in two spare spark plugs into the top front of the tank. Granted the cable operated oil pump suggests a sporting role, but those bits can easily be swapped between pumps.

-Doug

Offline Daren W Australia

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Re: What model tank?
« Reply #4 on: 04 Jan 2009 at 05:18 »
Hi here is a pick of an EW 600 tank taken from the same angle it does not seem to have the same taper on top Daren

« Last Edit: 08 Jan 2009 at 03:11 by Dave »
too many dougli not enough time!

Offline graeme

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Re: What model tank?
« Reply #5 on: 05 Jan 2009 at 10:24 »
Looks like an OB tank Howard. I would think the cable operated oil pump is an owner mod - many OBs were used for racing, as you would know.
Cheers, Graeme

Offline Doug

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Re: What model tank?
« Reply #6 on: 06 Jan 2009 at 01:37 »
Graeme,

I did not reckon the slope of the top to be steep enough to be OB/OW?

-Doug


Offline graeme

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Re: What model tank?
« Reply #7 on: 07 Jan 2009 at 03:53 »
You could be right Doug.
I was looking at the postion of the caps and oil pump as being OB.
Howard, could you measure the height of the tank at the front edge? This should sort out whether it is OB or not.

Graeme

Offline Doug

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Re: What model tank?
« Reply #8 on: 07 Jan 2009 at 11:27 »
If the tank is still extent, and it does not have a slot for the gear change lever, then it could not be proto/early EW. Can not tell if there is or is not a slot in this picture. The early EW, as seen in the first catalog illustrations, show the same filler cap and handpump layout as the OB. Unfortunately I have not found an image that would reproduce well. The other thing I have to consider is the catalog illustration could be a bit of artistic licence.

But there is no doubt the first preproduction EWs were different. Originally the engine was designed to pivot in the frame for easy servicing.

-Doug
« Last Edit: 07 Jan 2009 at 11:38 by Doug »

Offline Doug

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Re: What model tank?
« Reply #9 on: 12 Apr 2010 at 22:30 »
Howard,

Layout also matches that of an 1924 TW. This was an 'colonial' RA variant for the Australian market. It had the slightly sloping top seen on latter TT/I.o.M. models, oil in tank, and same cap/sight feed location.

-Doug

Offline Dirt Track

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Re: What model tank?
« Reply #10 on: 14 Apr 2010 at 02:14 »
G'day Doug and all
From what Doug has sent me regards this tank it looks to be a "SW24" tank.
Does such a model still exist?
I would love to see a photo of a SW24.
I did mention it came in a collection of OHV racing bits purchased about 8 years ago and had before that been part of a much larger collection purchased from an "old speedway promoter" that included 30 odd complete bikes.
Some of these bikes are still floating about Sydney, most having been sold for 36 each back in the old days.
Howard.

Offline Doug

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Re: What model tank?
« Reply #11 on: 14 Apr 2010 at 02:47 »
Howard,

TW24.

There are two, possibly three incomplete TW frames about that I am aware of. Frame prefix would be FF, rather than DF as used on the RA. Other than the top frame tube, very similar to an RA frame.

-Doug

Offline Dirt Track

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Re: What model tank?
« Reply #12 on: 14 Apr 2010 at 04:11 »
G'day Doug & all
Yes of course TW........senior moment for a while.
An SW would make it the 350 SV step up from the TS.
Would love to see a photo of such a frame.
Howard.

Offline Chris

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Re: What model tank?
« Reply #13 on: 14 Apr 2010 at 08:25 »
Hi
   The SW24 is virtually a hybrid of the TS and CW which were both produced concurrently and with which it shares the same forks, petrol tank and engine. It has the same frame and saddle with belt drive and a two speed gearbox as the TS whereas the CW has a modified frame and front saddle spring arrangement with three speed gearbox and all chain drive. However, the SW has a bolt on kickstart mechanism on extension plates. It also has a flywheel clutch and footboards like the CW model. (I am aware that the fitting of footboards was a preferred option in Australia on the TS model although footpegs were standard for the TS). On the two speed gearbox fitted with the kickstart mechanism an NG prefix is added to its number. In all other respects the gearbox is identical to the standard two speed box fitted throughout the years from 1912 to 1926. I think that the petrol tank shown above is, as suggested by others, from an overhead valve model. OB, OC, OW. or TT. I have illustrations which suggest that the 1925 OB has a petrol tank with a different rear slope from that of the 1924 model.  Chris.

Offline cardan

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Re: What model tank?
« Reply #14 on: 22 Apr 2012 at 13:26 »
Hi Doug,

Yes I know this is an old thread, but I am interested in the "TW" - the "Colonial RA".

I have seen photos of TWs in Australia in the 1920s, but they seem to have had a standard RA tank - see the bike at the far left in the attached photo. It has the sloping top tube of the TW, but a flat-ish tank like an RA.

You mention that the TW carried its oil in the tank, rather than in the "sump" (reservoir really) under the motor. Do you have printed info, or better still a catalogue illustration of a TW? Did any TWs have an oil reservoir under the motor?

Cheers

Leon



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« Last Edit: 23 Apr 2012 at 20:29 by Dave »

Offline Doug

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Re: What model tank?
« Reply #15 on: 22 Apr 2012 at 22:09 »
Leon,

The details of the TW tank are from the factory drawing. It has a sloped top like the EW tank, filler at front RH corner, small oil tank compartment at the middle traversed by the hand pump, and between the two caps a tunnel for an oil sight glass.

Other than a few drawings for the TW, and references to it by Jeff Clew in his book, I have never seen a period picture or catalog illustration declaring a TW model. So I do not know what the overall appearance was, other than very similar to the RA which it undoubtedly shared many components with. I have seen three RA frames with the slight slope to the top frame tube. Two has the FF serial number prefix of the TW model, and one had a DF prefix of the conventional RA.

The only petrol tank that I have seen that might have been a TW, was the picture Howard posted in this thread. Of course the factory, or a subsequent owner, could have fitted a standard RA petrol tank to a TW. Doing the reverse would not have been so easy! This would have left the issue of fitting the RA reservoir (you are right, not a sump as the oil never returns to it) or some alternate means of carrying the oil.

-Doug

Offline cardan

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Re: What model tank?
« Reply #16 on: 25 Apr 2012 at 22:44 »
Thanks Doug. There are photos of a (probably small) number of bikes with TW-style frames in Australia, but many seem to have the small RA tank. The photos are rarely clear enough to see the oil reservoir below the motor, but I suppose it was there if a small tank was fitted.

Leon

« Last Edit: 04 May 2012 at 20:42 by Dave »

Offline Doug

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Re: What model tank?
« Reply #17 on: 25 Apr 2012 at 23:51 »
Leon,

In the example picture you posted, there is a reservoir fitted under the engine. Even though you can not see it, you can see the cable along the front down tube and the end of the rocking beam passing under the front exhaust pipe that operated the manual oil pump in the reservoir (there was no engine driven pump.)

Not seen this picture before, thanks for posting it!

-Doug

Offline cardan

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Re: What model tank?
« Reply #18 on: 26 Apr 2012 at 00:05 »

Brilliant - I see it now. I wasn't sure how the oil pump in the reservoir was actually operated; all I know is that it has a very short stroke.

Photo Credits: Both photos come from the revised edition of the 1994 book "The Racing Boys", compiled by Wayne Adams. It covers the history of motorcycle racing in the Goulburn from about 1914 - 1930. Lots of Douglas pics. The only address on it is TT Publishing, PO Box 1139 Goulburn, phone 02 4821 7566. I like the book very much.

Leon


Offline cardan

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Re: What model tank?
« Reply #19 on: 04 Nov 2013 at 05:47 »

Thanks to the power of the forum, Howard's tank has not only been identified by Doug as from a Douglas Model TW, but it has been reunited with a TW24 chassis. Not only does the tank look "right" in the frame, but the mounting bolts line up exactly with the lugs brazed onto the fame. The frame has an FF prefix as mentioned by Doug above.

The TW is arguably the most elusive of the Douglas models (not appearing in any catalogue or advertising?) and may have been delivered only into the Australian market. In its purest form, it was likely powered by a 2 3/4 h.p. (57 x 68 = 347cc) version of the RA motor - perhaps with IE/1B prefix. There was also a 2 3/4 h.p. version of the RA nominated RW, but I think (!?) this used the RA chassis, with goose-neck frame, RA petrol-only flat tank with the oil carried under the engine in an RA reservoir. If anyone can provide more information about the TW I'd be most interested to hear.

Leon