Author Topic: 1000cc Douglas  (Read 11894 times)

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Offline richson

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1000cc Douglas
« on: 01 Aug 2007 at 15:55 »
There was some discussion a while back about a 996cc Douglas or Williamson as it were, circa 1912. I happened accross an engine for one of these a short time ago which had been on display at the now closed Murray Museum on IoM. It could make an interesting project or a valuable spare for anyone lucky enough to have one of these bikes, but a bit pricey at 1250 to stick on the mantelpiece. Some of the other Douglas engines they have for sale seem to be at the gourmet end of the menu too . . . Link is here: http://www.racing-motorcycles.co.uk/murrayparts.php

I did a little bit of searching and found that an 8hp bike was raced on Weston-s-mare beach  (my patch) by one WW Douglas - maybe it was one of the Williamsons;

"4 Oct 1913 - one mile course - start near the Sanitorium finish near the Atlantic Hotel. Car event organised by Somerset AC, Light cars & motorcycles by Bristol MC&LCC.
Class winners - AJ House (11.9hp Arrol-Johnston), Miss LB Starkey (12-16hp Sunbeam), ES Pink (15hp Talbot), WW Douglas (8hp Douglas), Earl of Shrewsbury (12hp Talbot).
Cyclecars - FG Cox (Morgan)"









« Last Edit: 04 Aug 2007 at 01:55 by Dave »

Offline Dirt Track

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Re: 1000cc Douglas
« Reply #1 on: 02 Aug 2007 at 12:08 »
G'day Richson
If you bought the motor with the sign on it saying made for Williamson.....this motor is actually a 4HP Douglas motor......certainly not a Williamson engine!
It would have been well overpriced at 1250.
Howard.

Offline richson

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Re: 1000cc Douglas
« Reply #2 on: 03 Aug 2007 at 08:07 »
Hello Howard,

Just goes to show - never believe the sales hype!  I didn't buy it but I did ask about it, and it has all the internals and turns over but no clutch/gearbox. Do you know which bike it was used in? I made an offer, but the seller said we were not on the same wavelength . . .
Do you know what the other motors are?

Cheers, Neil

Offline Dirt Track

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Re: 1000cc Douglas
« Reply #3 on: 05 Aug 2007 at 00:05 »
G'day Neil
The person who is handling the sale of the old museum on the IOM is the son of the late John Griffith, Past President of the VMCC of UK. I think his name is Stephen, he has been running a business selling racing bikes for some time.
His marketing of the museum stuff has been less than perfect.....he knows very little about veteran and vintage machines and apparently has not gone too much out of his way to identify anything at all.
I suppose with the internet there would be plenty of willing informants.
I have attached a photo of a nice 4HP outfit.
I bought a 3 1/2HP motor some years ago for $400 (seller said it was an ABC engine) which turned out to be one of the earliest 3 1/2HP engines in existence....passed it straight onto Norm Gullick who had a spare frame.
Howard.

« Last Edit: 05 Aug 2007 at 00:22 by Dave »

Offline Dirt Track

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Re: 1000cc Douglas
« Reply #4 on: 05 Aug 2007 at 00:18 »
G'day again
Sorry I just realsed you asked about the other engines on offer.
Unfortunately I have not (and never will now) visited the Murray Museum on the IOM.
Looking at some of the offerings on the internet I notice a lot has been "gobbled" up to put on show in the museum....I suppose that was better than hiding all the incomplete items in a store room!
The top engine displayed....I suspect the cylinders are early ones (no fins on the inlet ports) and yes the exhaust ones are broken off anyway....crankcase could be later...notice also the phillips screws holding the timing cover on.
Next engine is a stationary motor.
The 3rd is around 1930.
Howard.

Offline graeme

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Re: 1000cc Douglas
« Reply #5 on: 05 Aug 2007 at 03:25 »

Quote
I bought a 3 1/2HP motor some years ago for $400 (seller said it was an ABC engine) which turned out to be one of the earliest 3 1/2HP engines in existence....passed it straight onto Norm Gullick who had a spare frame.
Howard.

I wish he did have a spare frame Howard! We have most of the rest needed to build up another 3 1/2hp, so if anyone knows of a suitable frame I would be most interested to hear from them.
Cheers, Graeme
« Last Edit: 05 Aug 2007 at 05:35 by Doug »

Offline Alan Cun

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Re: 1000cc Douglas
« Reply #6 on: 05 Aug 2007 at 04:34 »
Hello All,  Speaking of Williamson Ray Owen of Nerang Qld is trying to put together a Williamson around 1914 I think and from the pics he has shown me there doesnt seem to be much common Doug parts to the frame. If anyone has any clues they can ring him as he has come north for the winter and will probably head south again for his mining venture in Vic when it warms up. regards Al

Offline Dirt Track

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Re: 1000cc Douglas
« Reply #7 on: 07 Aug 2007 at 11:59 »
G'day Graeme and all
In about 1978 I bought 2 Douglas frames from Steve Hazelton down in Goulburn for $40 each, one was a 4HP and the other a 3 1/2HP.
I gave Norm the 4HP frame a few years later and the 3 1/2HP frame was given to Lee.....not sure what he did with it? Just maybe he still has it or at least remembers who he passed it on to.....worth a phone call.
Have you still got the 3 1/2HP motor Graeme.....it had a fairly early No I seem to remember together with a two piece timing cover.
Howard.

Offline graeme

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Re: 1000cc Douglas
« Reply #8 on: 07 Aug 2007 at 12:46 »
Yes Howard, I still have the engine. I will definitely get in touch with Lee to find out about the frame. I think the 4hp frame went to Alan Cunningham - am I remembering correctly Al?

Offline Alan Cun

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Re: 1000cc Douglas
« Reply #9 on: 07 Aug 2007 at 21:56 »
Yes Graeme, I did receive a 4 HP from your dad and I think that was the one I passed on to Doug McLachlan in Tas. I was about to ask in return a S1 frame he had in return but unfortunately Doug died soon after. I still have the 4HP I bought off Len and it has just been finished by Des. I have also the 4HP handicap Speedway Doug, Another outfit modified with EW gearbox chain drive and brakes. Also a CW frame modified with a fixed head 4 HP motor and all CW running gear including box. Finally the 1917 outfit with 1919 motor that I am hoping for a 3 speed box one day. One thing that comes to mind is a motor I bought down at the Gold Coast with a cut out frame section. I think it was about a year later I was passing through Gunnedah which is a full days drive away and I was offered a 4HP frame with the bottom of the frame missing. And yes the cuts lined up perfectly and the Motor and frame were reunited and I think that is the one I passed on to my mate Des.  As you know the S1 cases are similar except for the lack of a sump. At the last swap I was lucky to pick up the bottom end of an S1 (cases crank, magy, rods, and pistons) for $300. What a win. When I put my S1 motor together years ago I had to leave out the balance weights, Cant remember why but this can now be fixed. Oh yes there is another 4 HP frame in my collection but it is modified to into an S1 Racer. all for now Al

Offline Dirt Track

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Re: 1000cc Douglas
« Reply #10 on: 08 Aug 2007 at 01:17 »
G'day all
It's a small world, and goes to show some of this stuff moves around until it finds a proper home!
Doug Mc Lachlan's S1 frame went to Eric I think for the chopped down S1.
A mate of mine has another S1 motor that has been modified....will dig out a photo of it.
Howard.



« Last Edit: 08 Aug 2007 at 07:10 by Dave »

Offline Dirt Track

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Re: 1000cc Douglas
« Reply #11 on: 09 Aug 2007 at 05:00 »
G'day all
To keep the records straight......I found the mention in my diary of when I bought that 3 1/2HP motor....
I bought it on 13/6/99 and paid $450 for it....and its engine No 1357.
I seem to remember Norm saying it was very early for a 3 1/2HP motor....according to the Bible it is the 3rd earliest on the register (1988 version)
Howard.
PS we have digressed!

Offline Dirt Track

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Re: 1000cc Douglas
« Reply #12 on: 10 Aug 2007 at 12:12 »
G'day all
send me an email Graeme......I think I have found you a frame.
Howard.

 

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