Author Topic: T35 Clutch Removal and lean on the front wheel  (Read 6565 times)

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Offline mattb31daytona

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T35 Clutch Removal and lean on the front wheel
« on: 19 Apr 2007 at 22:17 »
With the T35 running on both cylinders it is impossible to get it into gear, slow the revs down by diconnecting one pot and you can locate gears and take a poodle along the road - so at least the gears are all in the gearbox - tried the Petrol Wash out suggestion put on my earlier thread but stll the same.

So this afternoon after much huffing and puffing the engine and gearbox came out of the frame and it is now split and on the bench.....PROBLEM.....I don't have a box spanner big enough to undo the crankshaft nut and thereby remove clutch and flywheel AND nowhere can I find any reference to what size box / socket I need to obtain - CAN ANYONE ADVISE PLEASE,

Also assuming I manage to obtain suitable spanner and remove the flywheel / clutch what exactly am I looking for in order to establish what I need to purchase from the club spares department?

I hope I can get it "on the road" as it would be great to attend the anniversary celebration - THE OTHER THING that might stand in the way of this is that when looked at from the front it seems that the front wheel tilits towards the left fork at it's highest point - with the total lean off the vertical being a couple of inches.

Any help will be gratefully received.


Matt (Irthlingborough (near Rushden) in Northamptonshire)


Offline eddie

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Re: T35 Clutch Removal and lean on the front wheel
« Reply #1 on: 20 Apr 2007 at 07:01 »
Matt,  You will need a 3/4" Whit socket to undo the crankshaft nut. With the engine out of the bike, the biggest problem is stopping the crank rotating whilst undoing the nut. An air ratchet makes life much easier!! If you dont have one, and all else fails, take the engine (and socket) to your local tyre bay and get them to undo it! With the nut removed you may still have problems getting the flywheel off - the extractor attaches by two 5/16"BSF bolts, and it is quite easy to strip these threads before shifting the flywheel. The best method is to replace the nut, then back it off a couple of turns - fit the extractor - load it up and leave it until the next morning - by which time the reluctant flywheel will probably have released from the taper. If not, a couple of sharp taps on the end of the extractor bolt should help. When dismantled, check that the springs are all the same length. Check also that the six pins that go through the flywheel are an easy sliding fit. Then lay a rule across the thrust face of the spring plate and check the distance either side to the bolt face to make sure the plate is not distorted.
        Also look at the centre of the driven plate - make sure the centre boss is securely rivetted in the plate and that the splines are in reasonable condition. I have known clutches to 'hang up' if there is a large step in the splines. Ideally the clutch plate should be free of oil - but this doesn't usually prevent the clutch from operating, it just makes it more prone to slipping! When replacing the fly wheel, tighten the crankshaft nut fully - if the split pin hole doesn't line up, ignore it. Dont back the nut off to get the split pin in, as this could result in the flywheel working loose at a later date.
       If you should need to replace anything, Club spares can help with most parts - the only bits we dont have are the flywheel and pressure plate.
       Regarding the problem with the leaning front wheel - it may possibly be that the wheel has been hit from the side and the forks have just taken a set that way. Try releasing the wheel spindle nut and clamp bolt to see if the wheel will spring back. If it doesnt, the leading links themselves may be twisted, or the splined shafts they pivot on may also be twisted (resulting in one leading link riding higher than the other) - in which case you will be able to remove the leading links but then have problems pushing/driving the shafts out of the internal linkage (due to the twist in the splines).
       Good luck with the repairs,
                                   regards,
                                               Eddie.

Offline mattb31daytona

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Re: T35 Clutch Removal and lean on the front wheel
« Reply #2 on: 20 Apr 2007 at 23:07 »
"Matt,  You will need a 3/4" Whit socket ........"

Thanks for your guidance Eddie - I spent half the day trying to get 3/4" Whitorth socket without luck but eventually managed to get hold of a 33mm socket that fitted put an extending wheel brace bar on and as you said the flywheel just slipped, sorted that out by fitting a combination spanner open end on one of the lower flywheel nuts and moved the flywheel until the ring spanner end married up with a 5/16th crankcase stud hole inserted stud replaced socket and wheel brace and heaved for all I was worth and moved it not one iota, thought of your "go to quick fit" idea but my medical condition prevents me from even attempting to  lift it - the drawing board was visited and I decided to momentarily heat the crankcase nut with a pencil flame blow lamp, reapplied wheel brace and socket and pop off came the flywheel / clutch as one.

Further spannering and yes I have the clutch in bits - but is there anything wrong with it - How Do I Tell?

The only things to note having used John Holmes excellent maintenance guide as my reference was that albeit the bike is an early 1947 T35 there are six double springs and only the outer two hacksaw marks line up that on the pressure plate was two holes out of alignment. The only other thing is are the brass bushes on the driving studs meant to be free to rotate as they are all seized solid. Everything else seems to be fine - no excessive oil contamination or grease / oil inside crankcase, release mechanism (which I haven't removed) functioning OK, only light wear on thrust disc.

Springs are all the same length a tad over 1.4" and the thickness of the clutch plate and friction discs is a tad over .3" ARE these measurements a sign of things being good bad ? What should spring length and clutch plate thickness be ?

The last thing I want to do is end up putting everything back together reassembling the bike and find I still have a faulty clutch so maybe I should just replace everything but that seems daft if all is OK - I just don't know as this is my very first Douglas.

Any further help would be greatly appreciated ---and one final question does the club sell the clutch plate with friction discs already riveted or is this a DIY construction job and if so how do you go about it?

I will tackle the drunk front wheel after the clutch is sorted (now there's confidence that with the information that I am sure I will receive I will be able to get everything working).


Thanks again and keep the information coming - not just to help me but for the enlightenment of other T35 owners.

Matt


« Last Edit: 21 Apr 2007 at 11:40 by Dave »

Offline eddie

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Re: T35 Clutch Removal and lean on the front wheel
« Reply #3 on: 21 Apr 2007 at 06:56 »
Matt,
          New clutch springs are 1.440" long and the clutch plate is .325" thick. Regarding your comment that although yours is a Mk1 it has six clutch springs - as far as I know this is correct. All post war clutches had six pairs of springs. The only differences on the Mk1 are that some early clutches only had three driving pins through the flywheel and fewer rivets in the centre boss of the clutch plate. If you have any holes which don't align correctly, maybe someone has used an early pressure plate and hand-drilled the three extra holes. Try easing the holes with a rat tail file until they line up, then do a dummy run by assembling the flywheel, pressure plate and drive plate with all six studs tightened but with only three of the inner clutch springs fitted. You should now be able to place the flywheel face down on something like a paint can and press down on the spring plate. The drive pins should slide freely in the flywheel and easily return under the pressure of the three springs. If all is well, rebuild the whole assembly and fit the clutch/flywheel back on the crankshaft - only lightly nip the crankshaft nut at this stage. Operate the clutch release and check that the plate lifts evenly. At this point you should be able to move/rotate the driven plate by hand. When satisfied, fully tighten the crankshaft nut.
             Regarding the fit of the bronze sleeves on the drive pins - they should be a neat fit on the pins and a sliding fit in the flywheel. You will probably find that they have a small spacer (about 1/16" thick), there should be one on each pin. You will aslo find that two of the holes in the flywheel are a closer fit on the sleeves than the other four.  Another odd problem which has occurred with the Douglas clutch since the introduction of 'non asbestos' linings is that some of the early substitute materials, whilst giving good gripping properties, have produced a dust which tends to collect on the drive pins and impede the operation of the clutch. This problem tends to be worse with the grey composition materials - we have now moved on to a woven material very much like the old 'Ferodo'.
         Regarding the driven plate - I'm afraid it is only a construct it yourself job.
          Once again, good luck,
                                 Regards,
                                           Eddie.

Offline mattb31daytona

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Re: T35 Clutch Removal and lean on the front wheel
« Reply #4 on: 10 May 2007 at 21:27 »
Matt,
          Operate the clutch release and check that the plate lifts evenly. At this point you should be able to move/rotate the driven plate by hand. When satisfied, fully tighten the crankshaft nut.
             
 Regarding the driven plate - I'm afraid it is only a construct it yourself job.
          Once again, good luck,
                                 Regards,
                                           Eddie.


Thanks for advice, received the new Clutch linings etc from LDCC Spares beginning of week and have riveted them up today - on reassembling everything I discover that on operating the clutch release does not free the driven plate - dismantle again and start to undo the tab washered nuts 1/2 a turn at a time and reassemble driven plate still not free to turn - do this a couple more times and yes I can now turn the driven plate whilst levering the clutch release mechanisim fully THE QUESTION THEREFORE IS

To what extent should the tabbed washer nuts be tightened down and is there any way of ensuring that I am in fact tightening the driven plate correctly - I am using all six outer and inner springs, the release mecanisim appears to function correctly, it is a later six holed driven plate and flywheel with bronze sleeves a snug fit on drive pins and a freely sliding fit into flywheel.

The removed friction plates are only worn a few thou although black in colour (possible oil contamination) and quite smoothe - there is no evidence of oil leakage from engine or gearbox although I guess where clutch friction plates actually sit i.e. in gearbox housing it might be worth replacing the felt seal - QUESTION 2 - is this a simple task and can they be obtained?

I will succeed (eventually) in what must be a simple task for those that know the Douglas.

Matt

P.S. The fork lean is still to be investigated further down the road.

 

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