Author Topic: Follow up to parts request  (Read 14397 times)

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Offline MrWright

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Follow up to parts request
« on: 18 Dec 2005 at 03:53 »
I posted a want ad for carbs, exhaust and more, a few weeks back.  I have found all.  The carbs were originally purchased with the bike, but went MIA when I picked the bike up.  However, the previous owner (a collector of bikes) found the carbs among the hundreds of spares in his collection.  He bought the bike with intentions of restoring it, but he is in the process of manufacturing a customer line of racing V-twins (the most unbelievable machine I have ever seen).  I have attached pics of the carbs with hopes that someone can identify/validate them as those found on a Douglas 35T.  Also, I have attached some pics of a rather funky air filters.  They bolt onto the carb intake horn.  Can anyone idendtiy them? (filters to follow...)
Thanks



Larger view HERE
« Last Edit: 18 Dec 2005 at 22:16 by alwyn »

Offline trevorp

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Re: Follow up to parts request
« Reply #1 on: 18 Dec 2005 at 03:57 »
have a look at the flange mounting on your bike they will be vertical and the carbs u have are horizontal
« Last Edit: 18 Dec 2005 at 06:49 by alwyn »

Offline MrWright

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Re: Follow up to parts request
« Reply #2 on: 18 Dec 2005 at 04:03 »
I did so, you are right, my bike has vertical mounts.  The bike came with a vert-to-horizontal flange.  It sounds like I have the wrong carbs, soon to be posted "for sale" I guess...

Dave



Larger view HERE
« Last Edit: 18 Dec 2005 at 22:19 by alwyn »

Offline MrWright

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Re: Follow up to parts request
« Reply #3 on: 18 Dec 2005 at 04:05 »
Can you send a close-up picture of the correct carbs/mount? (or point me to same)
Thanks,
Dave
« Last Edit: 18 Dec 2005 at 06:51 by alwyn »

Offline Chris

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Re: Follow up to parts request
« Reply #4 on: 18 Dec 2005 at 19:00 »
Another point to note is that where twin carburettors are fitted to a Douglas they are normally handed right and left. The two carbs. shown are both right hand carbs.

Offline MrWright

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Re: Follow up to parts request
« Reply #5 on: 18 Dec 2005 at 22:29 »
Thanks for the input Chris.  I assumed that the float could be rotated left-right, but there is no getting over the vertical mount hole-pattern.  I am skeptical about us Amal carbs, as it would be incredibly easy to put a more modern carb on the bike (Mikuni, etc).  Do you have any thoughts on this?
Dave

Offline KiwiJohn

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Re: Follow up to parts request
« Reply #6 on: 19 Dec 2005 at 00:31 »
As far as I can see by looking at my handed Amal carbs the only difference is the position of the idle air bleed and throttle stop screws.  I would think the float chambers can be rotated around OK.

Incidently, my bike, which is reputed to have the original carbs has a brass one on the left and an alloy body one on the right,  I have been told this is normal and due to brass being used for low production runs.

Also,  my carbs have a round fitting for clamping to a tubular spigot rather that lugs.  There is a plate bolted to the head with a short tubular extension so if you can find tubular mount carbs and have the adapters made you would be close to original I think.  I doubt that even someone from the factory could tell the difference between a home made adapter and the ones on my bike! :)

Offline Doug

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Re: Follow up to parts request
« Reply #7 on: 19 Dec 2005 at 01:48 »
Here is a picture of one of the carbs fitted to my Mark 3.  Pretty much your standard Amal 274, but with those vertical flanges.  (The choke and their plungers have been removed and plugged.)  Yes they are handed, else it would be difficult to adjust the idle screw and and slide stop if these were to the 'inside'.  If you look around the slide stop boss you will see a faint rectange in the casting where they switched the mold insert to cast right or left hand bodies.  There is an identical but blank retangle on the inside. 


Larger image

-Doug

Offline trevorp

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Re: Follow up to parts request
« Reply #8 on: 19 Dec 2005 at 05:43 »
the brass carbs vent differently to atmospheric pressure, the alloys have the air bleed for idle mixture in the bellmouth
this shouldnt cause any problems as long as u dont use air cleaners
 i too have seen brass and alloy mixed on douglas  but my gut feel is the early brass ones have been fitted because alloy ones are hard to get and the sidestand problem that douglas had on t35 was the death of quite a few

Just a warning, several people have fitted larger mikunis and other amals 26mm to mk 3 and this engine was modified to be a bit stronger than the mk 1 and breath better bigger carbs on your mk1 may lead to other problems

 I know 19 mm inlet diameter is bad as most mini bikes have bigger carbys
i would only go to 22mm carbies at best

80 and 90 plus even went to triple valve springs as at higher rpm they were getting valve bounce

And the rarity of these carbs is, i have been scanning ebay for 8 months and have only seen one pair

Offline Chris

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Re: Follow up to parts request
« Reply #9 on: 19 Dec 2005 at 09:22 »
I was of course aware that the float chamber can be rotated to either side and that it was the access to throttle stop and air bleed screw that determines whether the carburettor body is right or left hand. Bearing in mind the need to consider the vertical flange, the right hand version of the 274 is relatively easy to find as they were used on many other makes of motorcycle. The left hand body is the difficult one to find. I know of one person who machined a left hand body from a solid billet. Difficult but clearly not impossible. I believe it is also possible to cut off the horizontal flange and remount it in the vertical plane.

Offline MrWright

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Re: Follow up to parts request
« Reply #10 on: 19 Dec 2005 at 15:22 »
Doug,

I am totally appreciative of the picture and the time you took to respond.  Also, trevorp and Chris, your input is valued.  As I have stated, I know NOTHING about English bikes, and less about Douglas’s (which mathematically translates to negative knowledge).  However, I do plan on becoming knowledgeable to return the favors, even if it is simply sourcing remanufactured “OEM” parts.  I have found a local tube-bender willing to bend 1.375, 16 ga. tubing about a 6 inch center radius, the approximate size for a T35 Douglas.  It will only cost me $100 ea (U.S.) and I plan on having several made (on time set-up change).  The pipes will be a minimum of 4 feet long on the exhaust end.  I will cut to suit.  Also, I have a source for rear finders for the same bike.  Again, the cost is only $100 per fender and they come as a “blank”, which means I can cut the side profile and arc-length to suit.  If I can help you folks out, let me know.  As for the Vertical carbs, I am thinking of making a Vert to Hoz flange via CNC (unless I find the correct carbs).

Offline Chris

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Re: Follow up to parts request
« Reply #11 on: 19 Dec 2005 at 16:25 »
Before paying $100 (US) each, do a search in the forum for "exhaust pipes". You will find that there has been recent discussion on classic exhaust pipes and silencers. "Armours" in the Uk can supply most of the pipes and silencers for Douglas models and I am certain that the prices are very much lower than your figure above and they come with fittings and chrome plated.
.

Offline Doug

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Re: Follow up to parts request
« Reply #12 on: 20 Dec 2005 at 01:12 »
Dave,

If you ask around, you may discover a lot of customers critical of Armours fit and quality.  Far be it from me to confirm this from my own personal experience.  But, they do seem able to produce the very simple bend required for the 'long' low Mark system, much along the lines of what you intend, without screwing up much.  And it will be cheaper than US$100 a pipe, done in plated steel.  I say no more!  Also I think Overlander Equipment (on the www) in Australia list a stainless steel pipes for the Mark, but pricey.  I have only used the latter for custom work, and the very tight radii pipes needed quite a bit of smoothing and did not meet the drawing specifications.  Which when pointed out, they dismissed as 'to be expected'.  The larger radii they handled just fine.  If samples from your pipe bender are of superior quality, you might want to weigh the aggravation and expense of dealing with an outfit abroad. 

The bike will be excessively loud on straight pipes.  Even my Mark 3 Sports with the simple pattern tubular absorbsion silencers (aftermarket) was a bit too 'sporty'.  In time I fitted a non-appropriate (for a Sports model) 'woffle box' from a standard Mark 3 and have never regretted it.  Though you indicate you are not going for a woffle box, if you do change your mind these are not the same pipes shortened up.  On the woffle box system the pipes converge at a slight angle and pass under the lower frame tubes, to match the angled inlets on the woffle box.  So the 180 degree sweeps are non-planer.  You may be able tweak the pipes, as the angle is slight; I did.  Just do not use the cylinder heads as a bending fixture! 

-Doug
« Last Edit: 29 Dec 2005 at 02:02 by Doug »

Offline trevorp

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Re: Follow up to parts request
« Reply #13 on: 20 Dec 2005 at 04:54 »
and most important is to ask the question about what sort of stand u are going to have as from memory u there are 2 types of stands for low pipes and woofle box
these bikes had a tendency to fall over so a good stand is vital as the bits u will break if it falls are hard to get
i too am going for a woofle box as they are almost a work of art by themselves
ill try sending some pics tommorow and im retrying that scan of brass inspection tag doug

Offline trevorp

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Re: Follow up to parts request
« Reply #14 on: 20 Dec 2005 at 09:46 »
this is the carb of my t35
also a pic of your bike when first arrived in australia

Manual cover c 1950



Larger view HERE

T35 Carburettor



Larger view HERE

T35 Carburettor flange view



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« Last Edit: 20 Dec 2005 at 23:04 by alwyn »

Offline KiwiJohn

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Re: Follow up to parts request
« Reply #15 on: 20 Dec 2005 at 22:46 »
There are a few complications regarding stands,  exhaust systems and even the starter pedal!

Woffle box exhausts allow fitting of a wider stand which is obviously more stable than the narrower stand required when using straight exhausts.   New stands of both type are available from the LDMCC.

Fitting the stand is not always so easy as the lugs on the frame are prone to becoming distorted which allows the sharp(ish) dogs on the stand to grind away at the bottom of the gearbox!  Not good!

My bike came to me with a woffle box and I found that when fitting straight pipes the right hand one conflicts with the starter pedal unless carefully posiitioned below the frame rail.  Having the pipe down there puts the mufflers very close to the wheel especially on the left hand side where the sprocket is.  A wider cranked starter pedal would allow the pipe to pass up outside the rear suspension mechanism and allow the mufflers to be just a litter further out of farms way.  I understand some bikes left the factory with such canted up exhuasts and were it not for the pedal problem I would have fitted those.  Such wide pipes would allow the wide stand to be used too.

So,  a woffle box allows the wide stand to be fitted but so does the canted up pipes although these pipes are apparently almost never seen nowadays.  The canted up pipes requires a wider starter pedal.

Fitting straight pipes and mufflers meant my wide stand had to go but after much head scratching I devised a very good side stand that attaches to the transverse engine mounting bolt and the nearby 'crash bar' mount. 


 

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