Information wanted on 1930 sidecar chassis spindle and hub

[Doug]

I was fortunate to be able to acquire a 1930 Douglas sidecar chassis, which goes nicely with a 1930 Douglas S6 basket case that I have been bringing home piecemeal in my luggage from the UK over the last several years.  The sidecar frame and the remaining larger bits of the S6 precipitated crating and shipping the balance, and are now resident in my garage.


Larger View

The sidecar chassis has the mounting hardware intact, and it does all fit up to the frame as can be seen.  The rear body coil-spring suspension is all there and functional, though it seems to be sprung a bit soft.  But unfortunately at some time in the distant past (and two or three owners back), the wheel, hub, and spindle (located at ‘B’, see image below) were removed; probably to make it easier to store the chassis.  And sadly it became separated from the chassis and lost.  So I need some help.  Ideally I would like a sidecar wheel and spindle.  Practically that is not likely to happen, so would settle for some drawings/sketches/photos so I can fabricate anew.  Also I need information on the mudguard and mounting stays. 


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The front body suspension mounts at the bracket indicated by ‘A’.  Catalog illustrations show this generally to be a bit of bent flat bar with two coil springs spaced either side.  Also it seems the body could be lifted, pivoting about the rear suspension, to service the left side of the engine.  It looks like there may have been a long pin that could be pulled out of the front mount, as a quick release latch.  Again, more details are sought. 

Douglas made pretty much the same sidecar, with small changes to bolt up to the various models and frame configurations, from 1927 to 1936.  And I very much suspect that even earlier chassis shared many components, except that they had leaf-spring suspension at the rear.  So it would not need to be exactly a 1930 chassis; quite a wide range in years would provide much needed information. 


Larger View

There was no body, and had there been it probably would only have been fit for a pattern, they generally do not survive very well being of light construction.  The image above is from the 1930 sales catalog, windscreen sold separately!  To get the hang of an outfit I will fit a simple box body to start with, (perhaps to haul the SW around!)  Eventually something along the lines of a Douglas Sports sidecar body is the goal.  I saw a fifties era VP sidecar that looked a lot like a Douglas Sports body, though the monocoupe construction was almost certainly far superior to what ever Douglas was using in the thirties.  I took some pictures and overall dimensions of that, and will build something along those lines.  Genuine Douglas sidecar bodies are rare.  However if there are any out there, pictures would be appreciated to use in designing an amalgamation of the Douglas ‘look’ and the VP construction. 

-Doug

[trevorp]

doug this may be a long shot but i think that watsonian sidecars are still in buisness and although i know douglas made there own this mob have been building since 1914 and they may be able to shed some light on the douglas ones
http://www.watsonian-squire.com/

[ChrisS]

Doug,

I have a 1930s sidecar (not Douglas) but with a similar arrangement for the spindle.

The spindle is 7.25" long overall. The section that fits into the sidecar chassis is 1.000" diameter and 1.500" long and has a 1.000" long threaded portion on the end of it with a fine 3/4" thread. There is a collar on the wheel side 1.380" diameter and 0.320 long. the spindle is inserted into the lug on the sidecar and the nut together with a locking washer and split pin hold it in place, torquing up against the collar. On mine there is a 3/16" peg  fitted into a drilled hole ajacent to the collar which locates in a slot in the lug, this stops the spindle turning in the lug.

Out board of the collar is the portion that carries the wheel, this is the correct  length  and machined to suit the wheel bearings it also has a 3/4" thread portion ( same thread) on which the(wheelnuts) bearing adjusting nut and lock nut fit; again with provison for a plit pin.   Hope this is of help

ChrisS

[Doug]

Still looking for information re- Douglas sidecars as related above. All help much appreciated.

-Doug

[trevorp]

not sure if u have these

[Doug]

Yes, I have similar in reprints, which is how I know the body tips up and that the bodies remained the same for quite a number of years. Really from the EW right to the late thirties. There are changes to the chassis in dimension, besides just the mounting hardware, to suit the different types of frame. But the layout remained unchanged. And so I hope any spindle, hub, front mounting, etc. would suit from any other Douglas sidecar chassis from 1926 onwards. 

-Doug

[Doug]

I have had no responce from a '30 era Douglas sidecar owner. I know these are not common, but I also know there are a few out there. Surely someone out there can help with some pictures and dimensions? 

-Doug

[Doug]

Well I finally did track down a 1930s Douglas sidecar hub and spindle. Patience will eventually be rewarded. Due to getting lost in south London I was not able to spend as much time as I would have liked measuring it up. But I did get some pictures of the bits and measurements that enabled me to knock something up on the computer to flesh out the missing details. The balls were not provided, but the dimensions of the bearing races almost mandate they were 5/16 (yes they could have been 8mm, but unlikely.) Not sure my hub measurements are spot on, as I may have the bearing cups a little too close together (tricky measurement.) But it is in the ballpark and probably the best I will be able to do short of acquiring an original.











-Doug

[DSIM]

Doug
How did you get on with the sidecar?
I am just back to working on mine and I am interested in how Douglas attached the sidecar chassis to the bike.
I have an E32 (T6) which has four mounting points two right through the cradle frame of the bike, lower front and lower rear. One high up on the seat tube and one forward and a little lower than the back wheel spindle. Although my side car is a NOXAL the front and rearmost mounts line up with no problem.
From the picture of your chassis it appears Douglas did not use a front swan neck and their literature of the day says that all sidecar lugs are provided, so as there is no lug high up at the front I assume this is correct.
Do you have any information on this?
Regrds ChrisS

[Doug]

Chris,

The only progress since the last post is that I think I have a hub for it; though the part is still in Australia.

The first picture in this post shows my 1930 Douglas sidecar chassis attached to my 1932 Greyhound (D32) frame. The E32 continued to use the old style extension spring front forks, at least perhaps until stocks ran out, but that would not have had any impact on how the sidecar chassis mounted. While the 2-3/4hp and the EW (as seen in Trevor's post) models used a clamp on strut high at the front, the S5/S6/T6 used a high point of attachment at the seat post. Then the three mounting points low, two through the frame cradle and one at the rear axle lug. So much for the standard sidecar chassis.

If the overseas and the two-seater sidecar chassis for the S5/S6/T6 (bigger chassis with the axle supported at both ends) used an additional brace at the front, I have not yet seen evidence of it. If it did, it would have required a clamp around the tube at both ends, as no provision was made for it on the cycle or the sidecar. This is what the did for the EW, so it is not an impossibility. The one example of a colonial sidecar chassis I have seen on a 1930-32 heavyweight did not have a brace at the front either.

-Doug