Author Topic: 1934 frame repair  (Read 1541 times)

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Offline saluki42

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1934 frame repair
« on: 23 Sep 2020 at 09:20 »
Hi I'm after some advice regards repairing a 1934 single downtube frame for my Model Z. At some time in the bikes history the two gearbox support tubes have been flattened and drilled to accept a centre stand, no idea why. Subsequently, possibly 40 years ago as this was the last time it was all assembled, someone has cut the flattened tubes obviously with a view to repairing it but again for some unknown reason all work was stopped. I've taken the frame to a couple of bike workshops who have been dubious about touching it without more knowledge of the original construction so has anybody got any knowledge of the method originally used.

Regards
Chris

Offline EW-Ron

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Re: 1934 frame repair
« Reply #1 on: 23 Sep 2020 at 10:00 »
Its probably better that folks who don't know what they are doing leave it well alone !?
Douglas (and most brit frames ) were brazed lug construction, for many a year.
Using steel tubes and malleable iron lugs.  Bicycle frames are/were done the same way, on a lighter scale.
To do a proper job of repair its possible to find repairers who know the technigues,
but my local guy here is not much help to you on t'other side of the world.

I found this pic here of a 34 Z frame, presumably the gearbox sits/bolts behind the downtube, on the 2 frame horizontal tubes ?


If the lugs haven't been damaged, its possible the flattened bits could simply be cut out and 2 good pieces of tube welded back in place.
You have to be careful not to overheat the area of the lugs though, or the braze could melt and run out and weaken everything.
But I haven't seen how much damage has been done to your tubes...

Offline saluki42

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Re: 1934 frame repair
« Reply #2 on: 23 Sep 2020 at 10:08 »
Thanks for the reply and yes the internal sleeving and welding option was one option I had considered if the original method failed. What interested me as much as anything was the rear seat frame shown in the photograph as I have one of them and what appears to be a matching sprung luggage rack included in the jigsaw of a bike I 've got. Re the frame I have just been given a fairly local contact to me who has been racing Douglas's since the 30s and still attends local sprint races on one of his bikes. He has been repairing and modifying them all of his life so may be able to help.

Chris

Offline EW-Ron

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Re: 1934 frame repair
« Reply #3 on: 23 Sep 2020 at 10:18 »
Sounds like a good man to consult.
Tell us how it all pans out.
Cheers.

Offline saluki42

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Re: 1934 frame repair
« Reply #4 on: 23 Sep 2020 at 10:25 »
If nothing else he sounds like an interesting person to meet and chat with. I'll let you know.

Chris

Offline eddie

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Re: 1934 frame repair
« Reply #5 on: 23 Sep 2020 at 11:50 »
Chris,
           Most brazed up, lug built frames are assembled in a frame jig and the lugs are 'pegged' to keep everything lined up during the brazing operation. if you clean up the lugs, you will find small tell-tale circles of braze where the pegs are. When replacing tubes, I usually cut them flush with the lug, then find the peg (they are usually quite long and protrude well into the bore of the tube) and drill it out. Make up a boring bar that is a reasonable fit in the frame tube, then set a tool in it to bore out the remains of the tube. I don't like the idea of trying to melt the braze as it needs a higher temperature to re-melt the braze than it originally took to build the frame - and it is easy to damage the other brazed joints if the lug is overheated. You don't have to be particularly accurate with the size of the hole when boring out the tubes - the braze will disguise a multitude of sins!
     With regard to your repair - if it is just the gearbox mounting tubes that have been cut out and need replacing, you should be able to remove the bottom half of the rear triangle by undoing the 2 bolts just above the rear wheel spindle. That will then give you access to the ends of the cut-off tubes. You will probably find that the lower frame tubes are one-piece (from the front down tube to the rear of the gearbox), in which case I would suggest that it would pay to remove the rear 4" of the engine rails, so that the replaced tube runs right through the lug. A sleeved and welded joint clear of any of the lugs will be better than a highly stressed joint in the vicinity of a lug. Like Mr Douglas, you should be able to fit new pegs to hold the frame in line whilst the joints are brazed.

  Hope some of this helps,
                                          Regards,
                                                         Eddie.

Offline saluki42

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Re: 1934 frame repair
« Reply #6 on: 23 Sep 2020 at 12:04 »
Thanks for that Eddie any information I can gather will help me make a final decision.

Chris

Offline Vitesse

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Re: 1934 frame repair
« Reply #7 on: 23 Sep 2020 at 14:20 »
" a fairly local contact to me who has been racing Douglas's since the 30s "

That makes this guy at least 100! Best you get his help quick!!

Offline saluki42

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Re: 1934 frame repair
« Reply #8 on: 23 Sep 2020 at 14:23 »
He's not far off of that but still gets along to the races when he can