Author Topic: Correct Headlight for 1930 H3 350cc sv  (Read 6099 times)

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Offline oil baron

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Correct Headlight for 1930 H3 350cc sv
« on: 15 Oct 2013 at 01:54 »
Hi There
Can some one help me, I am trying to find out what is the correct headlight for a 1930 H3 350 cc sv.
 There seems to be a choice between the earlier Bth Headlight with the big bakelite switch at the rear, or the
 P & H headlight with the cast aluminium switch also at the rear, that was fitted to machines from late 1930 onwards until replaced with a Miller Headlamp. The machine is currently fitted with a Lucas "Prince of Darkness" headlamp of the late twenties with the ammeter at the rear which is obviously not correct, but the originals of either pattern are pretty scarce.
Any help would be gratefully appreciated

SteveL
Steve L

Offline cardan

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Re: Correct Headlight for 1930 H3 350cc sv
« Reply #1 on: 15 Oct 2013 at 11:04 »
Hi Steve,

In a May 1930 advert in The Motor Cycle the lighting options listed are:

Douglas BTH Electric Lighting separate Generator Equipment 5-10-0 extra; or

Acetylene Lighting Set, complete with Horn 25/- extra

The L3 is illustrated, but presumably the lighting options also relate to the H3, T6, S5 and S6 which are also listed.

[Edit: In November 1930 there is a double page spread of the 1931 models. The A31 has "Douglas-BTH Separate Dynamo Electric Lighting" as standard (acetylene lighting for the same price if you were a toglodite); on all other models it was 5-10-0 extra.]

So if you want to go electric, the BTH set would be correct, but good luck finding one! The Lucas light that you have, if it is period, is a valuable item these days.

Leon
« Last Edit: 15 Oct 2013 at 11:48 by cardan »

Offline oil baron

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Re: Correct Headlight for 1930 H3 350cc sv
« Reply #2 on: 15 Oct 2013 at 19:12 »
Thanks for the information, Do you know roughly when the change over from the Bth headlight to the Powell & Hamner headlight was made.
It just struck me that maybe the lighting set for the 350cc used the Bth headlight, and the larger machines used the P & H manufactured headlight.  I don't ever recall seeing an S/6 or similar with the Bth headlamp, there are quite a few B/29 and the such with the Bth headlamp.  Maybe I have answered my own question.  Now all I need is some good photos of a Bth headlamp and a few dimensions, I might have a go at a fake from a old headlamp I have obtained, something that at least looks more the part. To a Douglas man the Lucas light looks really out of place.

All the Best

SteveL
Steve L

Offline cardan

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Re: Correct Headlight for 1930 H3 350cc sv
« Reply #3 on: 15 Oct 2013 at 21:43 »

Hi Steve,

Are you sure the P&H replaced the BTH and not the other way around? According to gracesguide.co.uk P&H were bought out by Lucas in the late 1920s, and I don't recall seeing a 1930s motorcycle lamp branded P&H. (Not sure what the headlamp is on this bike? https://www.douglasmotorcycles.net/index.php?topic=4555 - it has a BTH ammeter but it's quite P&H-like.)

I'm sure there pages contain some nice photos of correct BTH headlamps. I'll scan a couple of 1930 adverts when I get the chance - typically the 350s are shown with gas lighting, larger bikes with electric (presumably BTH?!).

Leon

Offline oil baron

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Re: Correct Headlight for 1930 H3 350cc sv
« Reply #4 on: 16 Oct 2013 at 03:38 »
Hi Leon

Thanks for the link, I am calling that style of headlight the P & H type,  The little badge on the top, has made in England around the top edge with a large P & H. the top of the letters shaped to suit the curve, under which is written Powell & Hanmer Ltd.  and under that Birmingham. I think this lamp may well have been introduced at the around the same time as the tartan tank panels. I assume this type of light continued to be fitted until around 1934,  though may well of been out of production for a while and they were just using up old stock.  Certainly P & H moved away from supplying components to the motor trade by the mid 30's may be slightly earlier but the company lasted till around 1982.

With the redesign for 1934 season saw introduction of the 8" headlight and tank panel switchgear, presumably all supplied by Miller, on the larger capacity machines.  I am not sure what was standard headlight on the likes of the early Comet & Cotswold as they still retained the S/6 styled tank, and did not come out with the more rounded tank until around 1935, I assume  these later models were also fitted with a tank panel.

The Aero model on which the tank panel was deleted, also used a Miller headlight with a switch fitted.

The earlier type of lamp which I am calling the BTH type is shown as fitted to a T/6 in the Douglas advert shown.  It had a bakelite knob at the rear similar to the one shown below.  It appears that there were a couple of different patterns, some appear to be more streamlined like the P & H type whereas others like that shown on the early T/6 advert. appear quite bulbous, with a tighter radius at the rear down to the switch.

It would be interesting if anybody has copies of the Blue & Green on for the period around the 1930 Motiorcycle show issue to see if there is any reference to the style of Headlight fitted, and whether the Tartan was introduced then, or was it later.
Steve L

Offline ccew350

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Re: Correct Headlight for 1930 H3 350cc sv
« Reply #5 on: 16 Oct 2013 at 10:48 »
Steve. Have you tried a search from the home page. If you enter h3 it will come up with a picture of an h3 with headlamp. Not sure if it is original or not.
It should be number 8 entry, The 2004 Bay to Birdwood run * New Pics.
Hope it helps, Regards, Colin.
colin

Offline oil baron

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Re: Correct Headlight for 1930 H3 350cc sv
« Reply #6 on: 16 Oct 2013 at 20:03 »
Thanks Colin

I think should have widened my search, I think I was searching for H3 headlight, still finding my way this great  site.  The photo seems to confirm that what I call the BTH headlight was fitted.  I also since located another photo on the internet that also showed a similar machine with the same headlight.  The photo appears amongst a number of other Douglas photos.  See the Website

http://velobanjogent.blogspot.co.nz/2011/06/another-look-at-small-photo-album-from.html

I don't know how to set up a link, so you need to paste the above into your Browser.  All I need now is for some kind person to post some good photographs of this style of light, with a few leading dimensions, Then I will have a go at faking one up, It would certainly look more the part than the existing Lucas headlight. I will get the machine up & running properly on the road first, The headlamp maybe a good project for the winter.

Thanks

SteveL
Steve L