how to identify a 1913 douglas regarding original state?

[th63ko]

hello, i am a new member of this forum, but collect and ride pre-war and pre-1914 bikes from the continent for many years.
being offered a 1913 douglas tt model, i ask myself if this might be something for my collection.
kindly request some helpful hints on how to find out if the offered bike is a true 1913 tt model or not.
have heard already that split engine cover and position of main stand are features to pay attention to.
more detailed information is welcome.
this machine is presently under full restauration by an expert with good reputation on other pre-1914 brands. asked price is just under 10.000 pounds.
any helpful hints and comments are very welcome, thank you.

[Black Sheep]

Take a close look at the photograph of the 1913 TT model in the picture reference section.

[cardan]

The layout of the handlebar lug (underneath the top fork link pivot) is interesting.

I assume the bike is being presented as a "TT style" Douglas, rather than one that raced in the TT? I'm currently at the National Veteran Motorcycle Rally in Parkes, NSW, Australia, where there are quite a number of "TT Roadster" models from various makers (usually something close to their standard model, but devoid of pedals) which some owners seem to describe as "TT Racers" - quite a different thing!

Was there a "TT Model" Douglas listed in the catalogue in 1913?

Leon

[eddie]

Leon,
          Following Harry Bashall's win in the 1912 Junior TT, Douglas produced a 'TT' model for 1913. I am lucky enough to part-own one, and it's performance reflects it's pedigree - with a top speed in excess of 60mph. I am also lucky enough to know the full history of the bike. It was bought from the factory by the Stroud brothers from Redhill in Surrey and raced on the board tracks around London. When no longer competitive, it was laid up in a barn until 1960, when it was bought from the Stroud brothers by Allan Phillipps (ex LDMCC chairman), who did a sympathetic rebuild to original running condition. When used in old bike runs like the Pioneer, Allan always opted for the highest speed schedule as that best suited it's performance. Since then it has been passed down through Allan's family to the point that one of his granddaughters and I now jointly own it.
     At first glance, it doesn't look a lot different to a standard 2¾ but there are quite a few detail differences - belt rim size, mudguard valances, light gauge spokes, etc. The main difference seems to be in the engine - it has a cam that is simply stamped 'C' (presumably for competition) which has a much higher lift and duration than any of the '5' series cams. Since 1960, Allan, Trevor (Allan's son), Janine (Allan's granddaughter) and myself have ridden the bike many thousands of miles and in those 50 plus years the only work needed on the engine was a change of pistons some time back in the 70's. Alan Phillipps took the bike to the Isle of Man for the Diamond Jubilee TT where it where it lead the parade and was ridden in the paddock by Bill Ivy, Phil Read and Agostini (who still remembers it with great affection). In 1998, Janine took the bike back to the Island for the 90th year celebrations where it was the 2nd oldest 'TT' machine in the parade. Later that week, Janine tried it around the mountain course - which it managed without any problems - at times travelling at a mile a minute (according to other club members who were following on machines with speedos).

[cardan]

Nice to have a machine of such well known pedigree! Although a "TT Roadster" Rudge (for example) used in its base form just the road motor, there was an "overlap cam", high compression piston, selection of handlebars, etc available to order. The "Brooklands Racer" model was also in the catalogue for 1912-13-14-15, and was basically the TT Roadster without mudguards and carrier. Presumably you ordered all the go faster goodies that you could get if you were heading off to Brooklands with your new bike. I'm sure the situation at Douglas was much the same - and good deals for talented customers of the big agents.

(Sunny and 1 degree Celsius this morning in Parkes, headed for 22C or there-abouts. 150km to be ridden; tall order for a 1909 atmospheric inlet valve P&M, at least with this rider aboard.)

Leon

[th63ko]

many thanks so far for the comments to my question.
well, i never assumed that bike as being a true tt competitor. it is probably more a tt style conversion bike. however, it seems to be complying with the year 1913 and i like sporty bikes.
under these assumptions, is that 10,000 pounds a reasonable deal?

best regards
holger