"TT" Douglas comes out of the woodwork........

[Dirt Track]

G'day all
Not sure if I mentione a few months ago but a mate of mine has bought a "TT" Douglas, see photos.
This bike is another that came out of a Sydney collector's estate, some real nice OHV Dougies have surfaced in the last 5 years.
I will find out engine /  frame / gearbox No's for this one.
Howard.

[Alan Cun]

Hello Howard, Yes good find there funny the front forks having the OB brake setup just like the one I got from Reg back in 83. I suspect the front wheel to be Rudge though. I too have one those large drum type sprockets with the 3/4 holes but it remains on the shelf because I couldn't work out how I could use it without using extreme sprockets on the box. Look forward to further info, regards Alan     PS this one not a TT the gooseneck is too steep???

Modified same day>>>>>yes on further studying the pics can't help but note the plating and lack of dents on the exhaust and no scratching on flywheel. This usually indicates the machine wasnt used too much or fallen off very often. My Reg bike was like that and turned out very sound mechanically. Assuming of course the parts and plating is original??????????

[Dirt Track]

G'day Alan
Yes I know that.....but the frame No is supposed to be a "TT" No.......all will be revealed when I get the No's.
Howard.
PS It took ages to get these photos of the bike....looks like he took them with his phone or pencil sharpener...they all have a digital camera with them nowadays!

[Doug]

Howard,

I am pretty sure you are going to find the frame has the TF prefix for the Dirt Track, and not OF or UF of the TT/I.o.M. models. The shape of the frame is not correct for a TT/I.o.M. See pictures on the forum of Jack Nelson's and Graeme Brown's (much modified) TT/I.o.M. for comparison. Also it has the DT petrol tank with oil compartment, and not the TT type (which had oil in the under slung sump) with the large flip-top filler and provisions for holding spare spark plugs. The front forks are OW/OB as previously noted, but the brake block lug should be on the other side. Looks like the blades have been swapped around, and some extra tabs welded on. The engine may be a mixture of DT/OC/TT. The drive side of the crankcase pre-dates DT, as it has the earlier OC/TT breather arrangement. The timing side can not be distinguished externally from the views given. The TT/I.o.M. would have a window frame in the base of the crankcase to collect oil for the under slung sump. The OC and the DT would not have this, and are similar except the DT has a lot more metal in the crankcase walls and around the tappet blocks internally. The engine prefix should revel all. The cylinder heads are DT, as they have flange ports, and not threaded ports as per TT and OC. The airbox is DT, as it is not machined for the oil pressure gage as per the TT/I.o.M. Probably you will find most of the motor is DT (and the machine), except for the drive side crankcase casting, which likely was replaced at some time (the parts interchange.) The TT/I.o.M. use hubs much like the 350EW, but the centers portion of the brake drum was thicker. Also on the rear, the sprocket bolts to the drum, and the drum has a curious large castellated joint to the hub, which is visible externally.

-Doug

[Dirt Track]

G'day all
Here we go....the No's for this bike.
Engine No EL1057
Frame No OF104
G/Box No UG193
The new owner assures me the No's are original and unmolested!
I will ask for photo close-ups....not because I do not believe him but some people would no doubt like to see them.
That has thrown the cat among'st the pigeons.......what do we make of that?
Howard.

[Dirt Track]

G'day all again.
A little bit of previous history on this bike....
Owned until his death a couple of years ago by Monty Moore from Sydney, a lot of Sydneysider's would have known Monty as a collector of sporting motorcycles and engines. I did not know him well but had a couple of brushes with him whilst buying such motorcycles and obviously met him at the odd swapmeet.
Monty owned Paul Worth Motor Cycle Wreckers in Parramatta (opposite corner to Paddy Ryans Motor Cycles) and back in about 1982 when the Parker Collection was auctioned off in Colac and a flat twin HD fetched $11,000A Monty dragged his specimen out and offered it for sale in the front window of the wreckers together with a magnificent 1923 RA Douglas in lovely original condition, a 1929 KTT Velo, 1938 BMW twin and a few other lesser machines. I think they all eventually sold....I believe the RA is in Brisbane.
Other Sydneysider's may like to comment on Monty and his collection which was fairly well kept a secret.
The bike in question was sold recently to a trader who sold it on and tripled his money in a couple of days.
Did anyone else end up with any good bits from this collection?
Howard.

[Alan Cun]

Hello Howard, As I have indicated before the said trader goes by the nickname $2 Brian. He was selected for the disposal of a lot of the treasure because he was willing to take all and not pick out the best and forget the rest. I have been dealing with Monty's son who is a resident not far from me. I was fortunate to get that Douglas / Waratah sign also  a bottom end with magneto for S1 and other parts. I would love to own the RA that was once owned by Monty and resides just near the border. I could own it one day, but the 30 plus grand asking price will rely on a lotto win. It is the missing link in my collection as is a ladies model but thats life??????????regards Alan

[Doug]

Howard,

I know you have turned up some pictures of real oddity frames, but I still think this one looks like a typical DT! One last check would be to see if the headstock has taper roller bearings (TT/I.o.M., and OC) instead of balls (DT/SW). The head stock lugs do not look large enough for the taper roller races (but it is hard to be sure), and the tube angle on the upper lug is all wrong for a TT but correct for a DT/SW.

One can not even say it is an early TT frame, as there are several period photos published of 1925 TT machines, and they only visually differed from the 1926-28 models in that they still had the earlier rear axle forks like the RA and OB, predating the cast lug as used on later models like the OC, DT/SW and of course 1926-28 TT/I.o.M. An excellent example (except for the nickel plating) of a early TT is the late Rex Judd machine on display at the Whitewebb Museum of Transport, Enfield, UK.

If the frame prefix is legit, then I am at a loss to explain! Make sure the owner is reading the number off the left-hand side of the gearbox mounting lug, and not some 'new number' stamped elsewhere!

The gearbox is not a problem. The only difference between the DT and the TT/I.o.M. 'box is the prefix stamped on the case, and the ratios inside. Otherwise they are interchangeable. In fact my SW has a UG prefix box fitted, but it still had the DT ratios inside from a 1950s restoration. There are short and then improved long taper input sleeve gears, but so long as you use the corresponding sprocket hub and proper chain offset, all will be well.

By the by, most of the TT/I.o.M. models in the LDMCC register, have replacment EL prefix DT/SW engines!

-Doug

[Dirt Track]

G'day all

I have been advised this bike is for sale!
Give me an email to flattankatbigponddotcom
and I will forward onto the owner......if you are interested in it that is.
Howard.

[Malcolm C]

I have had some enquiries re : is it a TT or a DT..

The frame number which is original does have the TT prefix and also dates the frame at 1926 the gearbox I do believe is also dated around this time.

The motor is dated at around 1928 according to the posts above.

The head stock takes std balls and not tapered rollers.

Does any one know when this style of frame was introduced?

Cheers Mal