Author Topic: New rims for 80Plus? (Read 2093 times)

douglas1947 · « **on:** 11 Mar 2022 at 15:14 »

I would like to buy new rims (front 1.60 - 21" + rear 1.85 - 19?)
best stainless.
Has someone a good address?

Michael

DJS · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Mar 2022 at 06:54 »

Hi Michael,

I would have a look at Central Wheel Components - www.central-wheel.co.uk

All the best,

David

douglas1947 · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Mar 2022 at 09:09 »

Hi David,

thanks for the advise.
I had a look, but can not find an offer for a 21" front wheel rim (prefer stainless).

Michael

yosemite · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Mar 2022 at 10:52 »

Try devon rim company probably best to give them a ring, they dont seem to have anything listed for Douglas on website, but from past experience web sites aren't always fully comprehensive. I used their products when I rebuilt my Bsa A65 and think they are great value

Odd Bob 66 · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Mar 2022 at 12:09 »

Central Wheel may not list it, but they would certainly be able to supply what you specify.
As stated, the websites list the most common fitments, but by no means all they can provide.
Email: richard@central-wheel.co.uk
He's the main man, and should be able to help if you tell him what you're after.
Nothing wrong with Devon Rim, but I've found Richard to be very helpful in the past.

Cheers, Paul.

Odd Bob 66 · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Mar 2022 at 12:42 »

Have a look here, this is the information they will need to pierce your rims.
I've had a look, and they definitely have 21x1.6 in stainless.

https://www.central-wheel.co.uk/information/rim-ordering-procedure.html

cbranni · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Mar 2022 at 17:59 »

Just like to second Old Bob's statement, Richard is the "go to" guy for information

Colin

cardan · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 Mar 2022 at 07:07 »

I'm surprised that the CWC website for ordering rims ignores a critical piece of information: the spoke pattern. The "cross" pattern of the spokes alters the angle at which the spoke meets the rim, and so the rim drilling is different depending on whether the wheel is laced 2-, 3- or 4-cross.

CWC might have experts, but don't expect them to know the original spoke pattern for a Plus. All sorts of things happen - the two photos attached (from bikes sold at Bonhams) show that different wheelbuilders have different ideas on what a Plus wheel might look like.

Best to be sure about what spoke pattern you want before you order new rims.

Cheers

Leon

cardan · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 Mar 2022 at 07:38 »

The 90 Plus wheel above is laced 3-cross on the brake side - I don't like the look of it but someone will talk about the angled spokes taking the braking load from the powerful (!) brake.

The 80 Plus wheel is laced 2-cross on the brake side - looks OK to me.

But looking at original photos of Plus models, I think they may have been originally laced 1-cross on the brake side, and 3-cross on the opposite side, which has a small flange.

Interesting. Is there a drawing?

Leon

eddie · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Mar 2022 at 07:38 »

In my opinion, cross 3 is the best pattern. As seen in the first photo, opposing spokes form an almost straight line, and being tangential to the brake drum, are less likely to pull it out of round as the rim is trued up.

Regards,
Eddie.

cardan · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Mar 2022 at 10:09 »

Quote from: eddie on 14 Mar 2022 at 07:38

... opposing spokes form an almost straight line ...

This is why I don't like the 3-cross spoking on the brake side. If the spokes are at 150 degrees, only 0.25 of the spoke tension is actually supporting the weight of the bike (or deflection of the rim).

In my opinion, Rudge built the best motorcycle wheels, and (like the Plus) they used 1-cross on their 1930s racers with 8" drums. They used triple butted spokes (9g,12g,10g) for strength and elasticity, with 8g (0.300") nipples. Perfection!

So my preference would be for the original 1-cross (brake) and 3-cross (other) on a Plus, with butted spokes, careful wheel building and a light skim of the brake drum if necessary.

Leon

douglas1947 · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Mar 2022 at 16:13 »

Thanks for all the advises.
I will try an offer for the rims on both wheelbuilders.

I have a 90+ with 2x crossed spokes on brake side.
The 80+ is only 1x crossed! I was wondering about this.
I think it is not possible to change from 1 to 2, because the spoke holes are different!
The 1x crossed spokes have nearly the same angle as the other hub side spokes (3x crossed).

Michael

douglas1947 · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 Mar 2022 at 16:15 »

80+ rim,

before restauration. (and lots of plumbum on the spokes!)

cardan · « **Reply #13 on:** 15 Mar 2022 at 05:43 »

Hi Michael,

Interesting to see so many variations in spoke patterns on surviving bikes - all with different rims to suit. No doubt the 1-cross, 2-cross or 3-cross variants would all function ok.

For the record here are two photos from the early days of the Plus bikes, both showing the 1-cross arrangement on the brake side. The 80 Plus wheel is detail from the photo used as the basis for the catalogue artwork (Carrick page 71), and the 90 Plus wheel is detail from the photo of Charmain Innes at the "production line launch" of the 90 at Kingswood (Briercliffe and Brockway, p 88).

Good luck with the wheels!

Leon

douglas1947 · « **Reply #14 on:** 15 Mar 2022 at 06:15 »

Hi Leon,

interesting photos, but may be also the 1. is also a 90+ (not maroon colour).

Have thought about the problem to change from 1 cross to 2 cross spokes and find the right piercings in the rim.
May be it is necessary to unsrew the brake drum from the hub and give it a turn to the next srew bore?

Michael

cardan · « **Reply #15 on:** 15 Mar 2022 at 07:56 »

Hi Michael,

Yes it may be a photo of a 90 Plus, but it was retouched and appeared as a maroon 80 Plus in a Douglas brochure. If you compare the two below you'll find the details (like tyre valve positions, etc) are identical.

Not sure about the relative location of the two spoke flanges, but I'd hope that a correctly dimpled and drilled rim could be made and fitted. It's a complex wheel, and highly skilled wheelbuilders are thin on the ground, but it sounds like the man at CWC would know.

Cheers

Leon

cardan · « **Reply #16 on:** 15 Mar 2022 at 08:28 »

Quote from: douglas1947 on 15 Mar 2022 at 06:15

Have thought about the problem to change from 1 cross to 2 cross spokes and find the right piercings in the rim.
May be it is necessary to unsrew the brake drum from the hub and give it a turn to the next srew bore?

Just different dimples and drilling? Don't forget to put the valve hole between two diverging spokes so you can get the air line on.

Leon

eddie · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 Mar 2022 at 09:15 »

Michael,
As there are 5 bolts holding the brake drum to the hub, turning the drum will not affect the spoke lacing, as there is a multiple of 5 (40) spokes.

Regards,
Eddie.

douglas1947 · « **Reply #18 on:** 16 Mar 2022 at 12:25 »

Quote from: cardan on 15 Mar 2022 at 08:28

Quote from: douglas1947 on 15 Mar 2022 at 06:15
Have thought about the problem to change from 1 cross to 2 cross spokes and find the right piercings in the rim.
May be it is necessary to unsrew the brake drum from the hub and give it a turn to the next srew bore?

Just different dimples and drilling? Don't forget to put the valve hole between two diverging spokes so you can get the air line on.

Leon

Yes Leon, I think the piercings must set different!
Thanks for your drawing!

Michael

douglas1947 · « **Reply #19 on:** 16 Mar 2022 at 12:33 »

Quote from: eddie on 15 Mar 2022 at 09:15

Michael,
As there are 5 bolts holding the brake drum to the hub, turning the drum will not affect the spoke lacing, as there is a multiple of 5 (40) spokes.

Regards,
Eddie.

Eddie,

you are right, there is no other possibility for changing the spoke angles to the rim!

Michael

douglas1947 · « **Reply #20 on:** 16 Mar 2022 at 15:43 »

I have ordered a set of rims at central wheels.

No positiv answer from Devon rims. They would not do the rims; Douglas it´s not their standard rim program.

Michael