Tank paint types

[ste]

I am about to get the TS tank painted and I have been asked the shades of Blue and Silver. I've checked the 1914 colours thread as follows:

 Fiat 455/B Bleu Imperial. This has a “Lechler” Ref 220B and Hyundai S7 Sleek Silver with an ICI reference of 4WJMB.

BUT, being in New Zealand am I going to struggle with the correct colour match?

Any advice please.

Regards,
Stephen Hinds

[Chris]

Hi Stephen
Since posting the results of my research into currently available paints to best replicate the original Douglas colours of blue and silver for the early Douglas models I can additionally add that the Hyundai Colour Sleek Silver is available in 300ml Aerosol cans at £6.95 each from the "Halfords" chain of motoring and accessory stores in the UK. It is also available in an approved pack from Hyundai dealers and on line from various suppliers and eBay. I am currently restoring a 1924 tank myself and have purchased the silver paint from Halfords which I am satisfied is giving a good match with my previouslysprayed tanks after sealing with the two pack clear lacquer. I still have original supplies of the original blue paint so have not tried currently available sources for the Fiat bleu Imperial beyond giving the details of the colour that can be mixed by paint stockists following my trials. I am fairly certain that it will be available from Fiat main agents and again it would appear to be on offer on eBay. Chris.

[ste]

Thanks for that Chris, much appreciated.
Second querie: are there any plans or drawings showing the detail of the blue lines and blue inside block?
 I've purchased the transfers (below) from the club and need to know the exact placement, presumably over the blue paint?

Regards,
Stephen

[Chris]

Hi Stephen
I am not aware of any official drawings of the paint layout and I am fairly certain that the tank painting was done by hand in the factory so probably there were no two tanks absolutely identical. The main two basic layouts were that the early machines (veteran) had three panels each side and the post veteran only two panels each side. In the case of the three panel layout the transfer is central vertically and horizontally in the middle blue panel. With the later two panel tanks the transfer should be central in the front panel. Each panel is surrounded by lining a generous 1/16" approx wide. I always start with the positioning of the upper and lower lining approximate;y 3/8" below the top and 3/8" above the bottom of the tank. I then mask so that there is a space around each panel of 1/2". I cannot be specific about the lengths of each panel in the case of the three panel layout but a search of the forum or the "Range" illustrated in the LDMCC website will give a good indication of the proportions. I hope that this helps. Chris.

[ste]

Thanks for that. That's a big help, I'll let you know the results. Hopefully the frame will be painted soon, the last plating returned and time to rebuild wheels and, well you know what it's like.
Thanks again,
Stephen

[Hutch]

Hi Stephen and Chris,
Sorry I didn't get around to posting the dimensions of the painted panels and pinstripes from the TS tank when the question was posed on the forum earlier. I have started with the rear right hand panel and hopefully will get the other dimensions drawn up soon as I get some spare time. The dimensions I measured are from the painted edge of the main panels to the centre of the pinstripe and from the centre of the pinstripe to the edges of the tank etc.

I agree with Chris that they look hand painted hence there appears to be a variation from what is probably a "nominal" factory dimension for each panel and pinstripe. The pinstripe appears to be 1/16" wide as Chris suggests. The right hand vertical section of the pinstripe for the rear panel appears to be approximately lined up with the front of the petrol filler cap. I will try and get some more accurate measurements of this.

Please note that close inspection of the paint on this tank, there appears to be some refinishing - mainly on the right front panel - so there is no guarantee that this is in fact original paint - so use at your own risk. Maybe other more knowledgeable forum members can confirm these approximate dimensions? Maybe with a few comparative tank dimensions  a consensus of what the factory intended could be deduced?

I have included the tank picture from the List of Assembled Parts for Douglas motor cycles models T.S. and C.W. for reference. Wish we could still get them at that price :-) !. Note that the right hand side vertical pinstripe on the front panel is not quite parallel with the "bow" of the tank - this is similar to my tank. I will see if I can get a picture of it.

Regards,

Ian

[ste]

Thank you sooooo much, really a big help just now.

Stephen

[Hutch]

Hi Stephen,
Sorry about the delay in getting these pictures posted. The distance between the front blue block and the vertical sloping pinstripe is 1/2" on both sides. The pinstripe is parallel to the edge of the sloping front (or "bow") of the tank. It appears not to be parallel from the side view due to the compound curve of the front of the tank. I would guess that the person who did the pinstripe by hand would have used the front edge as their guide.

The distance between the middle of the vertical sloping pinstripe and the front edge of the tank varies from 0.6" on the right hand side (possibly has been refinished) to 0.65" on the left hand side.

Hope this helps

Regards,

Ian

[Hutch]

Here are pictures of the "Douglas" transfers to show where they are in relation to the gear change shaft hole and mounting screw on the left hand side and the oil filler and oil pump tube on the right hand side. There is evidence of an old Douglas transfer under the blue panel (not lined up with the newer one over the top of it), so this leads me to think this tank has been refinished at some time. The transfer on the right hand side appears to be in approximately the same position as the one in the Douglas TS / CW assemble parts catalogue shown above.

Has any other forum members have any information on the location of the transfers/decals?

Cheers

Ian

[ste]

That's perfect timing and a big help thank you, tank is off getting holes filled and primed as we talk. Having a bit of trouble finding the paint as per the club recommendations, but I have a car painter friend who is trying to match it and sounds quite confident.

Thanks again
Stephen

[ste]

Just wondering if you could measure the front of the tank as well please? The distance from the end to the vertical blue line and perhaps the length of both the top line and thicker blue section? Sorry to be a pest.

Stephen

[Hutch]

Hi Stephen,

These dimensions are measured along the surface of the tank.

Front Section Pinstripe;

Top Line Left Hand Side = 11 1/16"
Bottom Line Left Hand Side = 10 1/16"

Top Line Right Hand Side (refinished?) = 11 1/4"
Bottom Line Right Hand Side (Refinished?) = 10 1/4"

Front Section Blue Block

Top Left Hand Side = 9 3/4"
Bottom Left Hand Side (refinished?) = 9 1/8"

Top Right Hand Side (refinished?) = 9 7/8"
Bottom Right Hand Side (Refinished?) = 9 1/4"


I thought I had given you enough info to work out the front section, but maybe not? As the sloping front vertical pinstripe is parallel to the front edge, or "bow" of the tank I thought that would be a good guide and allow for manufacturing differences in the tanks. i.e. lining the vertical pinstripe of the rear section up with the front edge of the  fuel filler and then setting the front sloping pinstripe parallel with the front of the tank 0.6" away and fill in the rest?.

I'm not quite sure which vertical line you are referring to, but if you take the vertical pinstripe of the front section,then the distance to the "prow" of the front of the tank is 11 3/4" on left hand side and 12" on the right hand side. This is difficult to measure accurately due to the curvature of the tank and the radius on the prow. I measured it along the surface of the tank.

I hope this helps you out, if you need any more dimensions or clarifications please let me know.

Cheers

Ian

[ste]

Thanks muchly, that's exactly what I need.

Regards,
Stephen