Can you identify this model?

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[raphael]

Hello,
Can you identify this model?
And how much to have to pay?
The engine is blocked!
But is complete

Thank you very much
Raphael Crelier
Switzerland



Larger view HERE

[alwyn]

Hello Raphael and welcome to the forum,
The bike you have photographed is a T35 350 cc probably of 1948 vintage - the rocker covers have the name Douglas indented - this was a feature discontinued in later models - to positively identify what year the bike was produced check the frame, engine and gearbox numbers - refer HERE for the location of these and then check for the corresponding numbers in the schedule. One thing I note about the bike is the tank colour - I believe the centre panel was originally black not blue as in the photograph and the surround was chromed indicating a repaint of this tank at some time - others may like to comment on this aspect?

We hesitate to quote a value for the bike - could be $A6000 to $A7500 in Australia or more - maybe someone can quote recent sale prices for you as a guide?
Alwyn
Global Mod.

Image of tank in what is believed to be original blue, black and chrome livery.

[Doug]

I think I have seen other pictures of early T35 petrol tanks without the chrome plated swath and blue top panel. 

There was a T35 Standard and a T35 Deluxe model cataloged, though it is not quite clear to me what the differences were.  Chrome or not on the petrol tank and blue verses black may have been one of them. 

So I would give it the benefit of the doubt and say it is original petrol tank paint scheme. 

-Doug

[trevorp]

bike certaintly is t35 mk 1 if it had a box type swingarm it is a deluxe the ealry ones had a tube swingarm and the deluxe is slightly longer alwyns paint is true for deluxe and some did have blue panels mainly on the first models
i bought mine going for about 3 k but needs a lot of work but not many parts
the cost of chroming the tank and having it painted is very expensive so many have just copied pictures they have seen
i still drool at alwyns tank but mine will be done soon enough

[Doug]

Trevor,

Tubular swingarms were only used on the prototypes and perhaps early pre-production before switching over to the box swingarm design.  Some of these tubular swingarms did get out into public hands.  I do not think it was meant to be part and parcel of a Deluxe version.

-Doug

[trevorp]

according to to t35 operations and maintenece manual the difference between a deluxe and a standard,  the deluxe model has a torsion bar sprung frame and the standard had an rigid frame
never seen a rigid frame t 35 coulndt have been many made

[Doug]

According to Jeff Clew's book, "The Douglas Motorcycle, The Best Twin":

"It had been intended to market also a rigid frame version of the DeLuxe model, but these plans never materialized.  The lugs produced for the rigid frames were used in the later competition models." 

Note 'competition' here means the trials models.  There were some prototype rigid T35 frames made and still about.  Ken Blake used one to house a DV60 engine to build a hybrid/replica DV60 model, featured recently in the New ConRod magazine.  True comp model frames can be identified by the upturned engine lug at the front to raise the engine for additional ground clearance. 

I also have a copy of the early T35 Handbook, code MC 138-10M-1147.  The reference to two models, the Standard being a rigid frame, I think was premature.  It is interesting to note illustrations show only the swing arm model.  Other than sub-sections on removal of the rear wheel and rear chain tension (citing the lack of variation due to the rigid frame) it gets no other mention. 

It looks like they only offered the one model, the DeLuxe, to start with. 

-Doug

[Doug]

According to Jeff Clew's book, "The Douglas Motorcycle, The Best Twin":

"It had been intended to market also a rigid frame version of the DeLuxe model, but these plans never materialized.  The lugs produced for the rigid frames were used in the later competition models." 

Note 'competition' here means the trials models.  There were some prototype rigid T35 frames made and still about.  Ken Blake used one to house a DV60 engine to build a hybrid/replica DV60 model, featured recently in the New ConRod magazine.  True comp model frames can be identified by the upturned engine lug at the front to raise the engine for additional ground clearance. 

I also have a copy of the early T35 Handbook, code MC 138-10M-1147.  The reference to two models, the Standard being a rigid frame, I think was premature.  It is interesting to note illustrations show only the swing arm model.  Other than sub-sections on removal of the rear wheel and rear chain tension (citing the lack of variation due to the rigid frame) it gets no other mention. 

It looks like they only offered the one model, the DeLuxe, to start with.  I would still say the petrol tank scheme sans-chrome might be original ex-works based on seeing a few other tanks painted the same.  But how or where it fits in to the catalog I do not know.  A close examination of the tank for traces of chromium plate under chips in the paint might be revealing. 

-Doug

[alwyn]

I would still say the petrol tank scheme sans-chrome might be original ex-works based on seeing a few other tanks painted the same.  But how or where it fits in to the catalog I do not know.  A close examination of the tank for traces of chromium plate under chips in the paint might be revealing. -Doug

Doug and Trevor,
I guess it's quite possible that the T35 came from the factory in both liveries but the chrome wheel rims on the bike pictured might tell us something - my original T35 was bought in South Australia c 1950 - 51 and it was delivered with chrome tank (the side blazes only chromed in the same way as my present bike pictured above) together with chrome wheel rims - the rims had a center band about 30 mm wide painted black (over the chrome presumably) with a silver pin-stripe each side of the black band - this scheme has been emulated on my present bike no doubt I believe, copied from the original - from this I reckon it's likely that the chrome tank and wheels was the factory 'standard' for this model and it's my guess that the tank on the bike pictured by Trevor has been repainted black - I recall that a Deluxe model was available here at the same time I bought my original one - it had upswept exhaust pipes and tubular silencer boxes and was finished blue where mine was black but I cannot clearly remember whether the tank was similarly chromed but guessing again, I'd say it was.

Incidentally, there's a T35 shown in the colour centerspread of the May/June 2005 issue of NCR that clearly shows the chrome side blazes and one at the beginning of the coloured section that appears to be a paint job emulating the chrome - and just to cloud the issue still further the last page of the coloured section shows one with black instead of chrome

Alwyn
Global Mod.

Edit = typo correction
A.

[Daren W Australia]

Hi just to add some extra info there were 20 or so T35's delivered in Sydney Australia in a CKD form and these were painted British Racing Green or Red. Ray Britten is restoring a green one at the moment and its green all the way and has matching numbers Regards Daren

[trevorp]

alwyn the model you saw with the upswept pipes was mk 3 sports it was painted black on panels with blue extending on both sides of kneepads and top. with a sliver paint where the chrome flash is to match the silver painted mudgaurds
it is really hard to know what douglas put out i have a douglas brochure that claims the t35 came out with magneto advance but have never seen one and doubt it could be fitted to the standard mn1 magneto

[alwyn]

Trevor,
Here's a couple of pics I took of T35S's at the Birdwood Classic in September 2004 - the first I think is close in colour and detail to what I remember of the model available here early '50s - claims to be a Mk III according to the signwriting on the number-plate - the other one is similar but I think is a bit of a fudge that's been modified with 'after-market' megaphone type silencer (?) boxes and is not painted as the original was, either colour or tank pattern. The tank in the first appears not to have the chromed blazes which I thought was an OEM feature.
Both of course have the swinging arm/torsion-bar suspension.



Larger image HERE



Larger image HERE

[Doug]

Both those pictured immediately above are Mark 3 Sports models.  The one on top an early one, the lower is later, after they modified the rear sub-frame to reduce fractures. 

By the way, there were also some export Mark models painted in Post Office red! 

-Doug

[eddie]

Going back to the Standard and De Luxe early T35's - Norman Camamile (who worked for Douglas) told me some years ago that only 3 prototype Standard (rigid frame) T35's were produced, and that he still had one of them. Following Norman's death, all his Douglases (some dismantled) were sold off at auction. Amongst these was a rigid Mark type frame with the number 'EXP 8' - presumably this was from the rigid T35 - it was very much like a Comp frame and only differed in the minor details.