Author Topic: 1915 2 3/4 - correct brake shaft and pedal??  (Read 1378 times)

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Offline roger h

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1915 2 3/4 - correct brake shaft and pedal??
« on: 18 Dec 2017 at 20:56 »
My 1915  2 3/4 hp has new wooden footboards, and a short brake pedal which fits over a tube parallel to the footboard support tubes, and which is bracketed in turn from a short vertical tube which bolts through a detachable lug at the rear of the crankcase and also clamps the crankcase to the lower frame tube. The problem is that the brake pedal tube fouls the bottom of the footboard. I can cure this by spacing up the footboard from the footboard mounting tube by some 1/2". The pedal is also towards the rear of the footboard, such that I will have to apply the brake with my heel. Is this correct, or have I got a "bitza"? Can anyone advise please? Thanks :? :

Offline Hutch

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Re: 1915 2 3/4 - correct brake shaft and pedal??
« Reply #1 on: 19 Dec 2017 at 06:15 »
Hi Roger,
On a lot of pictures of dispatch rider bikes for WW1 I have looked at, the short brake pedal on its own detachable bracket appears to be used with footrests only. This short footbrake pedal / bracket setup seems to have been used from 1915 to about 1919.

Where footboards are used, circa 1915, Douglas appears to use a pedal on the  front footboard support tube and had a longer rod back to the rear brake shoe. For example
2 3/4 HP model W.

I have seen pictures of where footboards have been cut to clear the short brake pedal when it has been used in conjunction with footboards but I don't think this was normal Douglas practice.
 
-Ian

Offline cardan

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Re: 1915 2 3/4 - correct brake shaft and pedal??
« Reply #2 on: 19 Dec 2017 at 20:17 »

I'm certainly not an expert on which pedals were used when, but some photos might help.

Leon


Offline roger h

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Re: 1915 2 3/4 - correct brake shaft and pedal??
« Reply #3 on: 19 Dec 2017 at 22:05 »
Thanks Ian and Leon for the help.
Ian, It sounds as though Douglas mixed and matched fittings .The pedal in the first picture Leon is the same as mine, and the bracket it runs on is the same as in the first and second pictures. I have the mounting tubes front and back for the footboards. At the moment I'm considering looking at removing the forward mounting tube, and using footrests, which will allow me to operate the brake pedal properly.
Thanks also for the picture showing the exhaust system.
Cheers,
Roger

Offline Hutch

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Re: 1915 2 3/4 - correct brake shaft and pedal??
« Reply #4 on: 22 Dec 2017 at 01:59 »
Hi Roger and Leon,

Yes Douglas did certainly mix and match parts, usually i think to use up old stock and get the bikes out the door, but during WW1 and later owners mixed and matched everything over and over as well to keep the bikes on the road!

I am no expert on this subject either but when I started my 1915 project i didn't have any rear brake parts at all and was originally going to use footboards and pedal 109D on the front (detachable) Tube (609D). I found a Detachable Foot Brake Mounting 615D with the small brake pedal before i found a 109D pedal, so I then investigated how this might go with footboards. I then realised, after looking at the 1915 preliminary list, the 1916 handbook of the Douglas (I have not found a 1915 one...) and pictures of WW1 dispatch rider bikes that the detachable brake pedal mounting may not have been intended to go with the footboards by Douglas.

After the decision to go with footrests was made, I purchased some footrest rubbers from the LDMCC.
The footrest rubbers I got from the club have "Douglas" on them and are riveted together with the end plates, the ones in the 1916 The Handbook of the Douglas look very similar (612D) but are shown with threaded rods and nuts to hold the end plates on. Interestingly the 1916 Book lists a part 608D Rivets for footrest pad, so maybe after the bolted ones fell apart in action they decided to rivet them together!...I will go with the riveted version from the club!

Note that the 1915 preliminary list was probably released in late 1914 and the detachable rear brake mount 615D may not have been introduced by then and hence it looks like it escaped theescaped the artist's impressions (if you look closely at the pictures), but Douglas do make a statement "New foot Brake" under improvements for 1915.

So the 1915 Preliminary List shows that model U  and W have footboards and a 109D pedal at the front and model V has the rear footbrake pedal mounted on the rear footrest tube. the ladies model X has the same setup as a model W from the pictures I have seen but it is not shown clearly in the list.


Offline Hutch

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Re: 1915 2 3/4 - correct brake shaft and pedal??
« Reply #5 on: 22 Dec 2017 at 02:03 »
These are the 1915 models from the preliminary List, they most likely differ from what was actually released in 1915 but this is all that I have to go on;

Offline Hutch

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Re: 1915 2 3/4 - correct brake shaft and pedal??
« Reply #6 on: 22 Dec 2017 at 02:54 »
Leons first picture shows the detachable brake pedal mount on a late 1914 bike. Douglas could well have introduced it by then as it improved the Dispatch Rider bikes based on experience gained in WW1.

The second picture looks like modifications after it left the factory as looks like a 109D pedal adapted to fit on the detachable footbrake mount. I have not seen any parts in the 2 3/4HP literature that matches some of the hardware that has been added to the footrest tubes and pedal to make it go together so i guess it was cobbled together to make whatever they had at the time work? looks like it will do the job tho'!

Leon's third picture shows the clutch pedal 1296D (listed as "clutch pedal 1914" in the 1916 Handbook) and brake pedal 109D (listed as "Back Brake Pedal for models H,K,L,O,R,S,U,W,X" and they would mount on the left and right of the front footrest / footboard tube. In 1915 the clutch pedal (for the cork clutch) became part 914D. Some time in WW1 Douglas may also have offered a hand operated clutch. There are parts listed but i have not seen any pictures of them.

Offline Hutch

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Re: 1915 2 3/4 - correct brake shaft and pedal??
« Reply #7 on: 22 Dec 2017 at 03:06 »
Here are a couple of photo's of foot boards used in conjunction with the detachable foot brake mount demonstrating the clearance issue (the second one with what appears to be a non-Douglas pedal?).

Offline Hutch

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Re: 1915 2 3/4 - correct brake shaft and pedal??
« Reply #8 on: 22 Dec 2017 at 03:22 »
Here are some period pictures circa 1915-1918. I found some pictures of 2 3/4HP of this period with foot boards but did not find one that showed the brake pedal configuration (either poor quality or shown from the flywheel side of the bike), hence I cannot say for certain that they did not use the detachable foot brake pedal with foot boards (does anyone have any to show?) but all the period pictures I can find so far with the detachable brake pedal mount do not have foot boards.

Offline Hutch

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Re: 1915 2 3/4 - correct brake shaft and pedal??
« Reply #9 on: 22 Dec 2017 at 03:29 »
Roger, I'll get some dimension for this and post it as soon as I get some time after the festive season.

Cheers and all the best for Xmas to all!

Ian

Offline roger h

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Re: 1915 2 3/4 - correct brake shaft and pedal??
« Reply #10 on: 23 Dec 2017 at 22:33 »
Hutch,
Lovely stuff, thanks very much!
I've asked Dick Bradley of the LDMCC if they can provide the footrest parts you illustrated. If I can't detach the front cross tube, I'll leave it in place and fit an extra pair of footrests as per some of your pictures.
Thanks again,
Roger

 

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