Author Topic: EW350 Kickstart quadrant gear - wanted  (Read 713 times)

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Offline geomellish

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EW350 Kickstart quadrant gear - wanted
« on: 03 Feb 2017 at 13:36 »
I'm looking for a replacement for the kickstart quadrant on my 1926 EW350 - if anybody has one or any ideas on this I would be grateful. The existing quadrant gear broke into 4 separate pieces one cold January day and I'm not sure that it is weldable.

Thanks, George

Offline Doug

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Re: EW350 Kickstart quadrant gear - wanted
« Reply #1 on: 03 Feb 2017 at 15:47 »
George,

That gearbox went through a few changes, one impacting the type of quadrant. Presuming yours is original, it should be earlier than the RG/E gearbox. Otherwise you will need to replace the quadrant and pinion together.

RG/    original EW350, operating lever on rear side
RG/A  new bush and steel sleeve for low gear
RG/B  sliding gear ball plunger, no vent pipe, operating lever moved to front side.
RG/C  new mounting, clamps to frame tubes
RG/D  low ratios for competition work
RG/E  stronger kick start mechanism, coarser teeth
RG/F  close ratio
RG/G  gear 11875 solid, H3 model
RG/H  A31 model
RG/L  L29 & L3 models

-Doug

Offline geomellish

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Re: EW350 Kickstart quadrant gear - wanted
« Reply #2 on: 03 Feb 2017 at 17:21 »
Thanks Doug - that is helpful for my search - My EW is an early 1926 with single oil feed; the gearbox does not have a RG or any number stamp, just a 'D' stamp and the old type mounting (could have been a replacement?). I suspect I will have to make a new quadrant gear, the broken original looks fairly insubstantial.  Regards, George

Offline Doug

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Re: EW350 Kickstart quadrant gear - wanted
« Reply #3 on: 03 Feb 2017 at 17:58 »
George,

The "D" sounds like part of the DK trademark. The serial number should be on the top of the case, on the lip just inboard of the inner end cover joint.

-Doug

Offline geomellish

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Re: EW350 Kickstart quadrant gear - wanted
« Reply #4 on: 05 Feb 2017 at 07:29 »
Yes, the D does look like a DK on a second look. No RG number though...

Offline Doug

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Re: EW350 Kickstart quadrant gear - wanted
« Reply #5 on: 05 Feb 2017 at 15:15 »
George,

Your photo is the spot where I have seen them stamped. Very peculiar. Since it has the 1925-26 style mounting and the vent pipe it must fall under the RG or RG/A style and have the finner pitch kick start quadrant and pinion.

-Doug
« Last Edit: 05 Feb 2017 at 15:24 by Doug »

Offline Daren W Australia

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Re: EW350 Kickstart quadrant gear - wanted
« Reply #6 on: 05 Feb 2017 at 19:56 »
Hi Could it be a replacement gearbox Doug Regards Daren
too many dougli not enough time!

Offline geomellish

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Re: EW350 Kickstart quadrant gear - wanted
« Reply #7 on: 17 Feb 2017 at 15:30 »
For the record, here is a photo of the rather under-engineered (in my opinion) kickstart quadrant gear that has broken into four pieces.  I can't find any spares either in the club or elsewhere.

I wondered if anyone else has had this problem and whether it might be welded. Perhaps a new gear is the best way forward? - George

Offline Doug

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Re: EW350 Kickstart quadrant gear - wanted
« Reply #8 on: 17 Feb 2017 at 17:11 »
George,

I cut partial gear blanks to make the replacement quadrant for my F28. In my case, the issue was broken teeth. I do have a spare that you are welcome to for the cost of the post (from USA). As soon as I can get my hands on a scanner, I'll post a 1:1 plot that you can use to see if it is the same size. Took me a while to figure out where I stored this!



I extended the one side (bottom edge as seen here) so that the quadrant stays engaged when it hits the stop. Coming out of mesh and swinging free before hitting the stop seemed to be e design flaw that increased the impact. Since then (these were made over 25 years ago), my understanding is that one should not fit the kick start pedal beyond about the ten o'clock position. This to ensure you hit the ground before you run off the end of the quadrant I think is the theory. Prevent one form getting 'too much swing' as it were. If you look at the catalog pictures, it shows the kick start lever in a lower than expected position. So this bit might need trimming off.

Also, I seem to remember progressively thinning the tips of the first two teeth slightly to get the engagement to start more reliably. These teeth that I cut are standard involute 12 diametral pitch form, which is all that I had a cutter for. In reality, they might have used an extended addendum to make a more stubby tooth, with pointier tip. Certainly the later, coarser kick start gears are such a shape.

I had to make new shafts for the F28 and the A31, as they had problems with the conical splines. But the two parts I simple welded together. For the limited use foreseen (neither bike has gotten on the road yet!) I did not bother to heat treat the parts or use an alloy steel.

-Doug

Offline eddie

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Re: EW350 Kickstart quadrant gear - wanted
« Reply #9 on: 17 Feb 2017 at 18:25 »
George,
            If you can find someone with a TIG welder, I reckon the old quadrant could be welded back together without affecting the heat treatment too badly. With the 4 pieces welded together, a piece of 1/8" steel plate could then be shaped to fit inside it, and tack welded in about 8 places (don't attempt to fully weld it as this will probably create distortion and more stresses). With the plate adding to the quadrant's rigidity, it shouldn't break again.

Regards,
            Eddie.

Offline geomellish

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Re: EW350 Kickstart quadrant gear - wanted
« Reply #10 on: 18 Feb 2017 at 14:16 »
Thanks Doug - I'll await your plot. Your blank has the same number of teeth - 11 - on the quadrant. On mine the first and last teeth are half a tooth right on the edge - maybe helping the engagement?

I shall also look into the possibility of TIG welding the original, as Eddie suggests, although this is not something I could do.

Regards, George

Offline Doug

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Re: EW350 Kickstart quadrant gear - wanted
« Reply #11 on: 18 Feb 2017 at 15:11 »
George,

If you print the following PDF at 1:1 scale, you should be able to layout your broken bits on top to see if it the same size.

quadrant blank.pdf

-Doug

Offline geomellish

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Re: EW350 Kickstart quadrant gear - wanted
« Reply #12 on: 18 Feb 2017 at 17:58 »
Hi Doug  - it is the same size.  I would have to get the old quadrant off the shaft - it appears to be one piece -by grinding/machining; it seems quite hard metal when I put a file to it.  Before I take up your kind offer and relieve you of you spare I'm going to visit a friend of a friend next week who is a skilled welder to see if he can do anything. I will let you know the result.

Regards, George


Offline Doug

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Re: EW350 Kickstart quadrant gear - wanted
« Reply #13 on: 18 Feb 2017 at 18:54 »
George,

The original is probably case hardened, so the core will be very tough but not dead-hard. You should be able to machine it with a carbide tipped lathe tool bit. Or anneal it locally with a torch.

The precision required is not on the order of the timing gears, so it might be welding the existing bits together will be quickest route back to the road. Or you could just bump-start it like the 2-3/4hp models!

-Doug

Offline geomellish

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Re: EW350 Kickstart quadrant gear - wanted
« Reply #14 on: 27 Mar 2017 at 11:25 »
To complete this post , here is a photo of the welded quadrant (and a patch on the silencer which was done at the same time). Fingers crossed it will hold and thanks for everyone's help. George

Offline eddie

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Re: EW350 Kickstart quadrant gear - wanted
« Reply #15 on: 27 Mar 2017 at 14:00 »
George,
              As I said in my previous posting, I would be inclined to fill the window in the quadrant. Early Douglas parts (including the kickstart quadrants) tended to be somewhat lightweight - resulting in some premature breakage. This was probably found to be the case with the EW - hence heavier weight, solid quadrants on later versions. Having been welded and still having the window, your quadrant will be a little softer and more prone to flexing under load - filling the window will prevent that flexing.

 Regards,
               Eddie.