Author Topic: Fulton engine repaired pieces (Read 16202 times)

Dewey · « **on:** 13 Feb 2014 at 00:11 »

We're beginning to move along here so I wanted to show a few pics of the pieces that I had made for this project

cardan · « **Reply #1 on:** 13 Feb 2014 at 03:00 »

Looks great! I hope you get a lot of pleasure from the kick start spring - its a lot of work for no visible reward.

Can I share something that you probably already know, but I that I only learned recently. Nickel plating - either electroless or electroplated - on bores can lead to disaster. I was shown an aluminium (aluminum to Doug) Indian piston that was destroyed in the first 100 miles of running of a "new" engine. Nickel from the bore (which was meant to have been masked for the plating process) had picked up and galled the piston very badly. The traces of nickel on the bore were hard to see, but were there when you were told where to look. The moral is to make sure that no plating has found its way onto the bore during plating, or if it has to remove it before running the engine.

Cheers

Leon

eddie · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 Feb 2014 at 07:13 »

Yes, plated bores are fine whilst the plating is in tact, but once it starts to lift, that's it - disaster!. I have seen several repro barrels for BSA B50's - the ones with plated bores in stead of liners - where the plating has let go. The result is the whole engine is destroyed by the minute bits of plating being carried around in the oil and attacking any sliding surface. Worst of all, the B50's have the oil in the frame, and it is almost impossible to be sure it is completely cleaned out - resulting in a repeat of the problem!

Eddie.

graeme · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Feb 2014 at 00:55 »

I think the answer here is if you get the barrels nickelled, do it before boring to suit a new piston.

Chris · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 Feb 2014 at 09:41 »

Hi All
I had my S6 barrels and heads electroless nickel plated but aware that nickel plating is undesirable in bores etc. and also concerned that nickel being very hard could be detrimental to boring tools, I used a liquid supplied by the nickel plating company to mask areas not required to be nickel plated. They recommended three coats allowing each coat to dry before applying the following coats. Rather than paying their huge hourly rate for this task I took the barrels and heads home after stripping of the old nickel and final aqua blasting and returned them for the nickel plating after the masking treatment. This was applied not only to the bores and gasket surfaces, but also to the valve seats etc. As electroless nickel will go everywhere, even into deep holes, I plugged every hole including valve guides etc. with special plastic plugs supplied by the plater and screwed old studs or plugs into each threaded hole. After collecting the parts after plating I was faced with the problem of removing the masking material. I tried every solvent I could think of and apart from petrol which had only a very limited effect, merely making the surface slimy, nothing else worked. So mechanical removal was the answer. A Stanley knife was very effective in most areas but was limited to only about an inch from the top and bottom of the bores, A brainwave then led to me putting a rotary wire brush in a power drill and this worked very well turning the coating into white powder. A final wipe with petrol cleaned up any fine residue and then a final hone left the correct finish for fitting the new pistons. Chris.

oily bloke · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Feb 2014 at 11:42 »

For those contemplating home plating, I have found nail varnish an excellent masking medium and easily removed after with proprietary remover.

Dewey · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 Feb 2014 at 23:10 »

Thanks Leon. Yes the plan was to do the plating first and machine operations afterward. Surprisingly, there was very little nickel deposited on the cylinder walls. I had absolutely no luck in finding a facility that could/would do electroless plating and had to resort to conventional electroplating. I was a bit disappointed that the plating did not reach down to the base of the fins but was told to expect that.
The kick lever return spring, of which I made several, was really not much work at all once I was set up. I had a pair of worn diagonal cutters that it welded a 1/4" drill rod a little over an inch on one side and a 3/16" of the same on the other, quenched it when it lost color, and that became my tool for bending the 2 different sized loops on the spring. I heated about an inch of the end just enough to be able to formed the smaller inside loop and slid it inside a 11/32" hole drilled into the outer circumference face of a piece of 1" round stock held in the lathe chuck. I then clamped a piece of 2x3 spruce scrap wood in the toolpost milling vise and put pressure on the back side so I could roll the chuck towards me ( counterclockwise) with an adjustable wrench on the jaws of the chuck. With each revolution I backed off the pressure a bit to accommodate the next layer of spring material. I had left the belts engaged on the lathe so it wouldn't spring back on me. I first tried using 3/4" stock for the mandrel but it was too sharp of a bend and kept breaking the spring. At that time I experimented with annealing the spring first which did in fact allow me to form the spring, but I couldn't re harden it so I opted to increase the size of the mandrel. I had to guess at how many turns to turn the chuck but it wasn't that critical because the last coil had to be straightend a bit anyway before forming the outer loop. I had a 10' length of stock to work with and used about 80% of it. Each spring used up about 23.5 " of stock.
One of the owners of this bike, who lives reasonably close to me, has gotten actively involved in finding sources for having things like the rollers, pivots, & pinion gear made. He has the advantage of living in a state that is not as environmentally obsessed as mine, which is discouraging manufacturing companies from staying here, never mind trying to start up. Long story short - this project just might be completed this year thanks to his efforts!

Dewey

Dewey · « **Reply #7 on:** 01 Mar 2014 at 12:21 »

Just to clarify - the pic of the lathe setup for making the spring was taken while I was winding it in the clockwise direction. I didn't like having the spring stock whip upwards whenever I needed to let go of it (only have 2 hands) so I reversed the procedure. Either way works fine.

Dewey · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 Mar 2014 at 13:46 »

I wanted to amend my post regarding the valve guides. I stated they would be restored with bronze inserts and have changed my plan. I will now produce new iron guides out of guides that were intended for the Ford NAA 134 cid engine. They are of the correct ID and length, and the OD (3/4") is the same as the largest diameter as the Mastif engine so it will be a simple matter of turning down the areas to be pressed into the cylinders.

Dewey · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Oct 2014 at 23:33 »

A bit more progress - the head machinist at the Fulton Co. has performed the mods to to the Ford valves selected for this project. Absolutely perfect work! I don't admire bashing, but the last institution that performed this same operation fell quite short of a quality product. I only wish I could take pics as well.

Dewey · « **Reply #10 on:** 15 Nov 2014 at 23:11 »

My apologies if this comes up a duplicate. I just finished machining new valve guides out of Ford NAA stock guides.

[Update to link path. 25Nov21 -Doug, Admin]

Dewey · « **Reply #11 on:** 15 Sep 2015 at 01:34 »

In light of the unavailability of new pistons we first tried building up the skirts and then turning them to size for the existing bores. The first one went ok, the second was a disaster. We bit the bullet when I finally found a company that was willing to make forged pistons for this project for a reasonable sum, which was largely due to the fact they already had a suitable blank on hand to choose from. The new bore size is 3.051" and uses Toyota rings.

[Attachments converted to linked images. 25Nov21 -Doug, Admin]

Dewey · « **Reply #12 on:** 05 Feb 2016 at 23:25 »

OhhhKayy. Believe it or not I should have this engine back together again by the end of next week, as long as the phones don't ring too much. I had Cometic make some really nice gaskets which arrived today so basically I now, officially, have all the pieces for assembly. The only thing that is by no means a dealbreaker, I've found no reference to what are the correct spark plugs. I can say the heads have 14mm threads for a 1/2" reach spark plug and have not been bushed down from 18mm. The closest thing I came up with was a Champion L10 or L11S for a Douglas 350. These plugs have been out of production for some time now anyway so there's no cross referencing them. I may have to just put in the B6HS NGKs that were in it and see how they run for color without any load but it would be nice to hear from someone who actually knows what is acceptable for this engine.

Dewey · « **Reply #13 on:** 17 Jun 2016 at 12:04 »

February has come & gone along with the extra time to work on this project, but thru tenacity I've managed to make the engine whole again. I assume the oil sump has no particular capacity spec. Just fill it to say, 1" down from the cap? I was going to use 15/40 diesel. Any reason not to use that?

kev · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Jun 2016 at 11:25 »

Dewey
all looks terrific..i like the spring bender... is there anything that cant be made on a lathe...??

I bought pit bike pistons and welded about 1/8 inch on the tops...picked up sleeves from a diesel parts supplier...best I could get for pistons was $200.00 each...no rings ...no pins..

I was going to make my valve guides out of an old camshaft...but my head guy thought the brass sleeves were the way to go...?? I have had them in several bikes and truck motors... with no issues.. but... I wont be throwing the old camshaft away for a while..

I am having to make some tank caps...any ideas of where or what you buy for the sheet spring material that holds the cap down?? 26 ew...my tank inlet has 2 pins that secure the caps...

I think any modern oil has to be better than what was available back in the twenties... the diesel oil has the best jug graphics.... must be good stuff...

Dewey · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Jun 2016 at 17:15 »

Interesting fix. I had contemplated building up the heads of a pair of pistons for this project but all I got was raised eyebrows from weldors and engine builders alike, so I found JE pistons and they supplied some nice forged ones for a reasonable figure.

The brass guide inserts work well as long as they have oil available. My 44 Scout didn't like them at all - stuck all the time.

Try McMasterCarr for spring material.

As far as oil goes - the US has the WORST conventional lubricants on the planet, thanks to the EPAs extreme demands. You know why synthetic is seen as so much better? It's because it's being compared to todays dino oil. 40 - 50 years ago regular oil was just as good as todays synthetic.

Dewey · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 Jun 2016 at 00:08 »

There's very little custom stuff left to do on this project but I hope someone can help with a very small item. The H32 has a horizontal slide Amalgemac ??? (hard to see) with mounting holes angled clockwise of vertical and a float chamber held on with 2 bolts. What I call the "tickler" is missing from the float cover. What should it look like? I can easily make something that will work but I'd prefer it to look like the original.

[Attachments converted to linked images. 25Nov21 -Doug, Admin]

graeme · « **Reply #17 on:** 21 Jun 2016 at 03:01 »

Hi Dewey

As for oil level, I've found on my S6 that it is best to fill the sump to about 1'' below the top of the sump, any more and the oil comes out everywhere. The tickler looks like a round headed pin, nothing fancy.

Cheers, Graeme

Dewey · « **Reply #18 on:** 25 Jun 2016 at 01:29 »

Thanks Graeme. An inch down it is.

Just curious. Is the spring visible on the tickler?

Dewey · « **Reply #19 on:** 07 Aug 2016 at 09:57 »

Well, I"m pleased to say the engine is up & running. Sounds good, no smoke, no noises, good compression. I would like some input in one area tho. The timed breather system exits onto the primary chain and most I've experienced like this comes as an oil mist. This one has something more like a dribble running out. Granted the rings haven't truly seated yet, but it just seems more than I would expect so I was hoping someone could enlighten me as to what is considered normal.

Dewey · « **Reply #20 on:** 10 Oct 2016 at 23:17 »

The final task was to make sure the clutch would operate correctly and with the engine tightened up inside with new main bearings I discovered there was no clearance at the release bearing. I knew early on that the flywheel had to have come loose from the scoring inside the taper so that material loss has to be the reason for the lack of clearance. It had been suggested that I make a thin oilite thrust washer in its place but I found there to be a fair amount of drag compared to the original ball thrust bearing, which would translate to added effort at the clutch lever on the handlebar. I elected to make a stepped clutch driving plate, the one that is held with 6 screws. There was .130" available travel for the clutch hub so I made the step .060" deep. All looked good until I checked the available travel at the release arm behind the flywheel. It was less than 1/2" and would decrease with clutch wear. I then took off .030" and found a sweet spot. 3/4" travel at the arm and still .100" inside the flywheel.
After 5 years of research, discussion, making new contacts, negotiating, and doing much actual work this project is headed for the FedEx freight terminal tomorrow AM and will be on its way back to be installed and operational once again. Thanks go to all who aided in giving me insight and knowledge to the way of Douglas, and special thanks go to Doug and Chris.

[Image orientation fixed. 25Nov21 -Doug, Admin}
[Attachments converted to linked images. 25Nov21 -Doug, Admin]

Dewey · « **Reply #21 on:** 10 Oct 2016 at 23:21 »

Sorry about the orientation of the pics. I had no control of how they were attached.

eddie · « **Reply #22 on:** 11 Oct 2016 at 06:18 »

Just an observation, but in the first photo, that clutch arm looks very short. It should be long enough to line up with the cable coming straight in through the adjuster.

Regards,
Eddie.

Dewey · « **Reply #23 on:** 11 Oct 2016 at 23:22 »

You are so right! I've just been shown an original clutch arm which looks forged or at least cast and the arm is much longer. The one in the pic must have been fabricated as a replacement. I suppose the shorter lever would be ok with gentler ramps on the cam so the bigger drawback is the angle of the cable rubbing on the adjuster screw would cause premature wear of the cable wire.

Dewey