Author Topic: Harry Bashall 1912 TT winner  (Read 16276 times)

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Offline nickcanfor

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Harry Bashall 1912 TT winner
« on: 01 May 2007 at 12:06 »
I am in the process of creating a replica of the machine that Harry Bashall won the 1912 IOM TT. I would greatly appreciate any photos of the machine, especially from the timing cover side. If you have any photos could you post them on this site or let me know where I could find them. The machine was a 1912 2 3/4hp Douglas with registration SV 31. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Does anyone know what happened to this machine?

Thanks

Nick

Offline Doug

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Re: Harry Bashall 1912 TT winner
« Reply #1 on: 02 May 2007 at 02:40 »
You have probably already seen images 8, 9, and 11 in "The Best Twin" 2nd edition. To that can be added this illustration and text, copied from the 1913 Douglas catalog, and originally appearing in "Motor Cycling" as noted. Unfortunately the gentlemen are partially obscuring the view of the machine.


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Photo. by Meurisse.
The Paris correspondent of "Motor Cycling" on-right introduces Mr. Harry Bashall to M. Boillot at Le-Mans.

Junior Tourist Trophy Race.

From "Motor Cycle," 4th July, 1912.

It was our pleasant duty to congratulate an old friend upon winning the Junior T.T. W. H. Bashall, of Ockham, Surrey, is an amateur motor cyclist and car driver, and he has had a most varied experience of all forms of motor vehicles. This was his fifth appearance in T.T. races, a previous success being second position in the 1908 race, when he rode a 5-6 Bat- Jap. Bashall is a rider of fine physique and scales 13 stone, so that the manner in which his little Douglas sped over the ground is all the more remarkable.

We were astonished to learn that he stopped six times in the first lap, due to mud being thrown up to the back plug by the belt. Despite this handicap, he was second on time. He stopped again in the second lap to fill up with petrol and oil at the Woodlands Depot, Douglas, his only other stop being for oil at Ramsey on the last lap. His chances of the trophy were almost jeopardized by this shortage of lubricating oil, which caused him to resort to the low gear for five miles. The gear ratios, by the way, were 4-7/8 and 7-3/4 to 1. He was not aware of his position until at Ramsey on the last lap, where Alec Ross told him that Kickham was leading him by a minute. After that, Bashall told us, he rode as he had never ridden before in any T.T., which will be best understood by those who know his dash and daring. He further confided to us that the 350 c.c. Douglas was as fast as his last year's 585 c.c. Senior twin.

It is an interesting fact that, although he dashed through the mud and grease, he experienced no sign of belt slip whatever -a testimony to the big driving pulley. Bashall related one or two amusing incidents of the race. He started with his breeches pocket full of tools, but these chafed on the tank, wore a hole through the cloth, and one by one dropped out on the road. Once when he stopped to clean a plug the rag he was using burst into flames. Another incident of his eventful ride, was when dropping down the mountain road at a mile a minute speed.

He was gradually overhauling P. J. Evans on the Humber, who was responding to the appeal of the Frenchman, Stoeffel, for an inner tube, and just as Evans threw it overboard, Bashall, dashing along in the rear, caught it on his toe and carried it along some distance As regards the running of his horizontal twin, it behaved faultlessly throughout, and, if anything, was faster at the finish than at the start. It is safe to say that there has never been a more popular winner of any Tourist Trophy. The enthusiasm was tremendous, and Bashall was lifted shoulder high as soon as he dismounted his faithful Douglas. In the evening the scenes of enthusiasm at the Palace, Douglas, when the trophy was presented by the Clerk of the Rolls will be remembered for a long time to come. The winner's Douglas had an Amac carburetter, Hutchinson tyres, Bosch magneto, Lyso belt; whilst Pratt's spirit and Price's oil were also used.

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Successes by Mr. W. H. Bashall during 1912 Season.
June 28.- Junior Tourist Trophy Race, Isle of Man. First, securing Trophy and Gold Medal.
September S.-Motor Cycle International Cup Race at Le Mans, France. Sixth.

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-Doug
« Last Edit: 29 Dec 2007 at 04:11 by Doug »

Offline graeme

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Re: Harry Bashall 1912 TT winner
« Reply #2 on: 02 May 2007 at 07:05 »
Quote
Another incident of his eventful ride, was when dropping down the mountain road at a mile a minute speed.

-Doug

What an understatement! Riding a 1912 Douglas at 60mph on any road would be pretty exciting - let alone going down the mountain on the dirt track it was at the time!

Graeme
« Last Edit: 02 May 2007 at 12:52 by Doug »

Offline nickcanfor

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Re: Harry Bashall 1912 TT winner
« Reply #3 on: 02 May 2007 at 12:06 »
Doug
That is absolutely fantastic. This is the best picture so far that I have seen and it has a particularly good view of the exhaust that I am getting made up. I have seen the best twin photos and have copies of the photos of the 1912 Motorcycle and Motorcyling articles that relate to the TT of that year, but was unaware of the Douglas catalogue that you provided. If you have any other useful sources, I would very much like to know as I will chase them up.
Thanks again

Nick
« Last Edit: 03 May 2007 at 12:31 by alwyn »

Offline Dirt Track

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Re: Harry Bashall 1912 TT winner
« Reply #4 on: 03 May 2007 at 08:58 »
G'day all
Photo on eBay at the moment....item no  300106715423
Take a look at the sellers other photos.....a few weeks ago a 1910 Matchless photo went for £201!
Some very nice TT photos for sale all the same.
Howard.

Thanks for this Howard - see e-bay link with photo of sale item here.
Alwyn
« Last Edit: 03 May 2007 at 12:29 by alwyn »

Offline graeme

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Re: Harry Bashall 1912 TT winner
« Reply #5 on: 03 May 2007 at 23:35 »
Alan,
Looking at the picture that is on the Ebay page, although photographed from the drive side, it looks to me that the machine has a screw on inlet manifold. It appears that the main difference to the 1913 photo is the exhaust - changed from standard. Perhaps the machine was a very early production (prototype even?) of the new model for 1913. Bear in mind that in the UK, the model year starts in September of the year before ie 1913 starts in Sept 1912.
Cheers, Graeme

Offline graeme

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Re: Harry Bashall 1912 TT winner
« Reply #6 on: 03 May 2007 at 23:41 »
Just had another look at the postcard - the exhaust is not standard. In fact it looks to be the same as that in the 1913 photo.

Offline Doug

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Re: Harry Bashall 1912 TT winner
« Reply #7 on: 04 May 2007 at 03:17 »
Quote from: Graeme
Bear in mind that in the UK, the model year starts in September of the year before ie 1913 starts in Sept 1912.
Add to that, as a factory supported rider, Bashall and his teammates would have advance use of any up coming features and improvements for the next catalog season. And here is a picture of the team, again from the 1913 Douglas sales catalog:


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Not good enough to make out any great detail, but there is a hint of inlet manifold 'gland nut' on Rex Mundy and S.L. Bailey's machines. Also note they have similar hand oil pumps mounted to the side of the petrol tank. 

To further prove that some folks got '1913' engines earlier than the public, the following photo from Tony Middlehurst's book "The Pictorial History of Motorcycling" is captioned S.L. Bailey, 1912 Challenge Lap at Brooklands (December 1912.) No disputing the gland nuts here.


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On the assumption that Bashall and Bailey would have been supplied with similar machines, these pictures also from the 1913 sales catalog of S.L. Bailey might be of interest:


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Both are supposedly taken at the French Grand Prix, September 8, 1912. In the first picture, the machine seems to sport the same non-stock exhaust system as Bashall's machine. However in the second there seems to be something under the engine, perhaps the stock silencer. If that is what it is, then it is a discrepancy that I do not have an answer for. Or maybe it is just something like his helmet resting on his shoe.

S.L. Bailey's machine, registration D8502 did start out as a more mundane configuration, as this picture shows, probably taken shortly after acquisition. It still has the stock silencer fitted.


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« Last Edit: 18 May 2007 at 00:39 by Doug »

Offline graeme

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Re: Harry Bashall 1912 TT winner
« Reply #8 on: 04 May 2007 at 05:36 »
Great pictures Doug
Interesting to note the variety of carburettors fitted on the machines in the team line-up. My guess is that there were quite a number of non-catalogue items fitted - as would be expected for racing machines.

Graeme

Offline Dirt Track

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Re: Harry Bashall 1912 TT winner
« Reply #9 on: 04 May 2007 at 11:38 »
G'day all
Alan.....I think you will find "On Two Wheels" was out closer to 30 years ago!
On another tack...whilst on holidays a few times over in the UK we called in on the late Chris Tait down in Hove, I remember him saying that the decendents of the Bashall brothers rode his Martinsyde from time to time.
I would imagine it would be quite possible to contact them and ask if they have any info or photos of the Douglas.
Howard.

Offline Alan Cun

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Re: Harry Bashall 1912 TT winner
« Reply #10 on: 05 May 2007 at 07:56 »
G'day all
Alan.....I think you will find "On Two Wheels" was out closer to 30 years ago!
On another tack...whilst on holidays a few times over in the UK we called in on the late Chris Tait down in Hove, I remember him saying that the decendents of the Bashall brothers rode his Martinsyde from time to time.
I would imagine it would be quite possible to contact them and ask if they have any info or photos of the Douglas.
Howard.
     comments removed   not a great fan of lookalikes todays fake tomorrows masterpiece     same goes for photographs who knows when the captions were added  a true record is a newspaper article with date attached     Al
« Last Edit: 07 May 2007 at 23:21 by Alan Cun »

Offline Alan Cun

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Re: Harry Bashall 1912 TT winner
« Reply #11 on: 16 May 2007 at 10:55 »
Hello All    Wed night back to the shed, back to the New Conrods of the past,   If you have a copy of Nov/Dec 1995 page 13 ,here is a photo supplied by George Elliott       Caption reads Kickham, Bailey and Bashall Douglas mounted, French GP.    1909.     Over to the experts but thems bikes look like   191?  12 or13        Next obsevation May/Jun 2000 page 19 The Guvner William Douglas Senior took a keen interest in the early factory racers. Doesnt say the rider but the screw on manifolds and the Hand pump outside the tank certainly indicates a 1912 factory model.     Dont know our rights on posting LDMC pics.  No criticism intended on first pic, possibly just a typist error.    regards Al

Photos ex NCR courtesy LDMCC.



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« Last Edit: 17 May 2007 at 13:11 by alwyn »

Offline nickcanfor

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Re: Harry Bashall 1912 TT winner
« Reply #12 on: 17 May 2007 at 21:08 »
Alan
I think your assessments are correct. The first picture showing Kickam, Bailey and Bashall shows racing numbers for Kickham and Baily of 11 and 3 respectively, which were their race numbers allocated for the 1912 IOM TT. (see the Motor cycle 4 July 1912) The number placed midway on the tank (as shown in the photo) was exactly where the race numbers were placed on the machines in this year. (Along with a large round number on the back axle and in front of the head stock. )If you could see Bashalls number I am sure you would see number 20, which was his winning number !! However you can make out his vehicle registration number as being SV31 which was the machine  on which he won the 1912 TT.  Taking this all into account, along with the equipment on the machines, I would be certain this is 1912.

I would think that the venue is probably the French GP as the picture suggests. There are other pictures of these riders at Le Mans ( I assume this was the venue fot the French Grand Prix) who also have the TT race numbers on the tank, but not on the rear axle or on the headstock. The event at Le Mans took place after the TT so they probably never removed the race numbers. Perhaps they were painted on the tank - that would explain why!

The second picture is easy (if you are as sad as me) it is James Stewart from Belfast, pictured at the 1912 IOM TT where he came 4th in the Junior Event. The full picture showing the full machine appears in the Motor Cycle 4 July 1912.

I hope this is of use and keep the pictures coming.

Nick

Offline Dave

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Re: Harry Bashall 1912 TT winner
« Reply #13 on: 08 Apr 2009 at 11:27 »
Alastair Brown sent in this photo and message.

Nick,
 
Very Interested in your project to create a 1912 Replica. I have recently acquired a 1912 machine that belonged to Alfie Alexander. It has a modern carburetter and a wide tank with quick fillers and a three speed g box which I suspect Alfie added when this became available. What does interest me is the shape of the cylinder inlet and exhaust. Different and larger than any others I have seen. Would these be those made by Douglas for their 1912 racers. I attach two photographs for you to see.
Regards, 
 
Alastair Brown




Offline eddie

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Re: Harry Bashall 1912 TT winner
« Reply #14 on: 05 Apr 2011 at 15:58 »
Hi All,
         Can I make a couple of observations regarding these machines?
       On completion of this years Pioneer run, some of us were discussing the external pump on Nick Canfor's machine. One obvious reason to change to the external pump is that any 'running repairs' to the pump during a race can be achieved without draining the tank - just a makeshift bung for tank connection is needed! Also, even with the somewhat gentler use the bikes get these days, it is not unknown for cracks to generate where the pump body is soldered into the tank.
      Regarding the ex Alfie Alexander machine, I would be most interested to find out what cam is fitted to this machine. I, at present, own LB 1120, a 1913 'TT' model which was originally bought from the factory by the Stroud brothers who used to race it on the board tracks in the south of London. The cam fitted to LB is just marked with a 'C' and it has considerably more lift and duration than any of the '5' series cams. As far as I am aware, this motor has no other modifications other than the fitting of modified Mark pistons (way back in the late 70's). This year was the 50th anniversary of it first being used in the Pioneer Run - I think it has only missed 4 runs in that time - and the only replacement parts are those pistons, another set of rings and a couple of valves!
                         Regards,
                                Eddie.

 

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