1911 Douglas, I think...

[Beemer Dan]

Hello everyone, I'm working on a research project that involves identifying the motorcycles in an old photograph. I believe that it is indeed a Douglas, but I wanted to check with the experts to be sure. The photo was taken in 1911. I know that tracking down actual model and year numbers from a blurry photo may be next to impossible, but information would be very helpful.



Thanks very much for any assistance you can offer.

[Doug]

Not much to work with, eh?

Though blocked by the rider's leg, the petrol tank does not seem to slope down at the rear, so not a 1912 frame or later. Nor does it have that faceted look of the 1910 petrol tanks, but this is stretching it a bit! The distance between the flywheel and the petrol tank seems a bit greater than the 1911 model D (or previous models), so I am guessing it is a 1911 model E, which had a new frame that lowered the engine. It was chain drive to a two-speed counter-shaft, thence belt drive to the rear wheel, no clutch or pedaling gear (the absence of the later permitted footboards to be fitted, which this seems to have.) The only other model available in 1911 was the F, a ladies frame which is quite unmistakable.

Yes, no?

-Doug

[Dirt Track]

G'day all
Gee its good to see an expert at work! Well done Doug.
Beemer Dan....send us the whole photo..we might be able to identify the rest.
Howard.

[Beemer Dan]

A master at work! It took me some time to figure out that it might be a Douglas, but once I got that much right it seemed like it could be none other. Tracking down details further than that was something I was sure I'd need expert advice on though. Thank you so much!

Here's the other one in the photo, not much at all to work with. The front fender does seem to have some sort of ornament, although that could be a trick of the shadows.



Thanks very much again for identifying the Douglas down to the model!

[Doug]

I'm just glad you didn't ask which brand oil he is using! At first, I figured, no way! But then comparing it to the Douglas Identification charts, making a few assumptions, and the provided date written on the back of the photo as a starting point, it does seem possible to narrow it down to a specific model.

The other bike though, is too oblique for me to spot recognisable features. But the fellow is using Hutchinson tyres rather than Palmer, which he pumped up at the service station rather than using the hand inflater. He is smoking a Persian cut shag in his pipe, and has a ham and cheese on rye in his left coat pocket... 

-Doug

[graeme]

The other machine looks like an Indian - the linkages on the handlebars and front fork suggest this. What model I couldn't say, but with a sidecar fitted I think it is a fair bet that it is a twin. And I would reckon that the sandwich would be on sourdough bread rather than rye!

[Dirt Track]

Indian for sure.....but it has a British sidecar!
Howard.

I have attached another early photo...for expert identification. HD,FN,Triumph,AKD and Indian can all be spotted...lets see if anyone can identify the car? I cant see a Douglas but you may be able to.

Howard.



Larger view

[Beemer Dan]

I think you are indeed correct about the sandwich, although we may never know for sure the bread. I've looked at a lot of bikes from that era from the front and come up with little, although I'll take another close look through the Indians to be sure. I'd agree that it's likely to be something with a little more power to allow for the sidecar. The only motorcycle of that decade I've found that had fender ornaments was the Scott, which had Squirrels, and possibly something different before the squirrel ornament. Of course there were so many manufacturers in those days there is no telling what it could be.

On a similar note, I've never seen that particular hood ornament on the car in that photo you've got, but the driver better have some sandwiches. They look hungry after racing all day!